[KT]

Hi guys,

I came late to the whole JVC ballgame, but here I am, just having received my ES1sl yesterday.

This was after I owned the F10 for about three days, returning it after Chairguy and Dmason suggested the ES1 was closer in sonics to what I was after.

First a question about the ES1's fan noise: What is the "normal" state of the fan? In my amp, the fan seems to be on all the time. I can feel the cool air come in on the right hand side and exit slightly warm on the left hand side. I haven't cranked it, but in this "idling" state the amp runs just lukewarm in temperature. Also, there is that mechanical fan noise, not too loud but kind of annoying, similar to what you would hear from your computer. So far the fan seems like it is always on, but at a very low level.

Does the fan ever shut off entirely?

In the F10, on the otherhand , the fan seemed to shut off until it was needed, at which time it kicked on with a whoosh of warm air. Perhaps it is also on constantly, but the fan's mechanical noise at idling is much more quiet?

Interestingly, the F10's fan noise when it comes on is louder, but it isn't terribly annoying. It's a low frequency whoosh that's intermittent and unobtrusive.

The ES1's fan noise bothers me a lot more than the F10's, though it is lower in volume. The fan is on at idle speed all the time and sounds like that higher frequency oscillating buzzing that these fans can sometimes make. It isn't terribly loud - I wouldn't notice it at 8 feet away with room noise and music, but it irritates me in the same way transformer buzz does: it's always there and just gnaws away at the back of my mind.

Also, I'm using this in my bedroom so I'm only 5 feet away from it. At night  just before I fall asleep, I like to listen at very low levels and the fan buzzing does become an issue. The level of fan noise is low,  but the frequency range of the noise is right in that annoyance range. Just like that transformer buzz I mentioned.

I'd appreciate any insight on this.

And now some impressions of both amps. Overall, the F10 seems much more solid and well thought out. The industrial design is better, in my opinion, and the feel of the controls/remote control is much more solid.

When I unpacked the F10 and set it up, I thought "Wow, this is going to be good." Everything seemed solid and confidence inspiring.

I think the ES1 looks and feels chintzy by comparison. My impression with this amp was "This should sound good, but I hope everything works OK." The remote control is much cheesier (especially the sliding door) than that of the F10, and the screen placement, layout of the faceplate, and quality of the knobs made if feel kind of flimsy and cheapish.

The whole user experience, barring the issue of sound, is much nicer with the F10.

The F10 seems to run much hotter than the ES1. The F10 got significantly warm (hot, perhaps) even at idle whereas the the ES1 is just lukewarm. I don't know how this will affect the longevity of either amp, but it seems to me that the ES1 should have better longevity just because of this.

The FM tuner on the F10 doesn't seem to pick up as many stations, but seemed to lock on better to those stations than the ES1 does. That's in my system at my location.

This is up in the air since I've only used it for a couple of hours.

Well, I hope the fan will get quieter as it breaks in. In my gut I don't think  there's anything abnormal about my amp, but I'd appreciate hearing any experiences you may have on this. Perhaps my sample just had a slightly loud fan.

Best,
KT

[Dmason]

Don't know if this will help, but I just removed the lid and unplugged the fan. Let it cool by convection. Likely far less than optimal but works fine.

[KT]

I've had my ES1 running for about a week, now, and it sounds pretty darned good. Very warm, round, and inviting. So far it sounds different than good tubes, perhaps a little more homogenous, but I expect things will really open up and loosen up with some burn-in tweaks. The amp does have that kind of listenability, though, if not quite the same signature.

A little earlier I described the tuner in the ES1 as picking up more stations as the F10 but not locking onto them as well. I'm wondering if maybe because damaged the pin on my 75ohm FM antenna socket.

When I initially set up the amp I accidentally pushed the antenna clip between the pin and the shielding sleeve instead of right onto the pin. It lodged in there, but may have loosened the pin and the internal solder joint. When I reconnected it properly and fired it up, I noticed that FM had much more static/interference than what I remembered with the F10. Also, there's some looseness in the center pin - I can wiggle the attached antenna and the pin will move back and forth to some degree.

Well, I was worried about this so I went in and resoldered the point where the pin hits the circuit board. I think the static decreased somewhat, but the pin still wiggles around a little bit.

If anyone can spare a second to wiggle their wire antenna at the 75 ohm plug and report back, I would really like to find out if the pin is really supposed to have some play in it or if I damaged the mounting. I can't remember if the pin was always firmly set or if it always had this little bit of play. I can say that the solder joint is fine now that I've redone it, but I'd like to find out about the pin mounting.

Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with the ES1 so far. Pretty nice!

Best,
KT

[ooheadsoo]

The f10 will work without the fan???  The es1sl will NOT work without the fan.  I've been thinking about buying a ahanix/silenx fan for it.  Once I get the time to pop open the cover again and verify the dimentions.

[TheChairGuy]

KT,

Your experience, so far, mirrors my own.  The ES1 has a noisier fan....many have mentioned it, but I never found it particularly bothersome.  Tho, I don't sleep in my office/soundroom where it was located  

I found it warmer and like tubes...but not quite.  I liked it better than any tube gear I've heard - I'm not much of a fan of tubes.  It had magic the moment I turned it on and kept getting better each day up to 300 hours.  It drove the Vandersteen 6-8ohm 1c's quite well.

In contrast, the F10 is better built...absolutely my perception, too (2nd generation upgraded it seems).  I like that it goes to extreme lengths like using copper screws...hard to believe for a $300 (list) receiver.  The FM section is definitely weaker....I now need a good indoor antenna (looking at Magnum Dynalab, but they are kinda' ugly - as are most of the good FM indoor antennas).  The DSP is terrific - I leave it on 'small hall' setting for my FM background classical listeing all day.  It gives a nice hall perspective to the sound.

The F10 is more SS sounding...and drive-like.  It has never had that euphonic / tube-like beauty that I heard with the ES1sl, but it drives my 4 ohm Maggies straight, to parapharase another AC members experience, to heaven.  The combo of the F10 + Maggie MMG (slightly modded at this point) is just more enjoyable to me that the ES1sl + Vandy was.  I attribute much of that to the Maggie....but it wouldn't sound so good without a competent and stellar amp like the F10 driving it.

Anyhow, it's all about choices and what you will pay for it.  

I hope you rectify your troubling fan and FM performance problems...the ES1sl is a peach of a little amp on the right speakers. Enjoy  

[KT]

Chairguy,

Yeah, they're both great little amps. Thanks to your help, I was able to "cherry pick," so to speak, the one that best suited my listening tastes.

I'm sure I would have been very happy with the F10, too. It's just that I personally prefer that tube sound.

I did like feel, look, and overall user experience of the F10 much better. Too bad that one didn't have the more tube-like sound!

Regarding the FM antenna socket, I wonder if you might be able to check the center pin of your antenna socket, on the F10, to see if it has some play. If so, I'll have to assume that this is normal for the JVC receivers and just be happy with that.

If the F10's pin is solidly fixed, on the other hand, I'll have to get information from another ES1 owner to see if the ES1 does or doesn't have play in it.

If not, the wiggle in mine may suggest damage to the pin mounting.

With the wire antenna, it's easy enough to grab the little pin clamp and give it a little wiggle to see if center pin has play.

Anyhow, I'm very satisfied apart from this little niggling doubt. Once I find out, I can rest easy.

Thanks,
KT

[MonkeyK]

KT,

My new F10 has some play in the FM antenna socket.  Then again, I also think that the FM reception is rather poor on my F10 (generally speaking since I have not compared it to another F10).

[KT]

Monkey,

Thanks for checking your antenna connection. At this point I think that the play is a normal thing. That's after hearing that your F10 has it, too, and after taking my ES1 apart and studying the connection.

Seems like the antenna is designed to have some play.

Anyhow, my FM reception is fine, sounding good sometimes and exhibiting some hiss at other times. Pretty normal.

As for my fan noise, I put some strips of EAR Isodamp sheet (from Michael Percy) on the 3 sides of the metal frame that holds the fan. That quieted things somewhat. Also, I put a larger strip of Isodamp on the inside of the top cover. The final thing I did was to put four little Isodamp resonance control feet (a good, cheap foot), under the foot pads of the amp. All of these resulted in reduced fan noise, but I'll have to listen at night just to make sure.

I haven't done any little tweaks for quite sometime, but those little Isodamp feet really did improve the liveliness of the amp. My initial impression was that the sound was a little less controlled, but it sure was more lively. But I only listened to it for an hour after that. I can't make a firm assesment, yet.

Anyhow, I really like the ES1. It's really great!

KT

[TheChairGuy]

The F10, in breaking, in never gave me that 'wow' moment the ES1 did.  The F10 is just supremely confident that it can drive near anything; the ES1sl had that tube-like magic..that many speak of but that I had never experienced in any tube gear.  Well, maybe a little with my PAS-3 in the midrange long ago....this was my first tube piece of gear.

Funny that it took a digi hybrid amp to appreciate tube magic that others hear and crave.  For me tube gear has too many tradeoffs in sharp attacks and dynamics...the ES1 manages to lose very little in SS drive (on most speakers) and reward with some remarkable tubelike midrange performance.  It's only because I've been so seduced by the charms of Maggie that I find myself with the F10.  But boy, I ain't unhappy....I am listening to Beck 'Sea Change' right now and am totally floored with all I am hearing.

fyi....my antenna pin has bit of play, too...nothing too problematic I think, tho.