[Red Dragon Audio]

woodsyi,

that's a good strategy for a test.

[SWG255]

An interesting idea to "Bybee" one speaker first and compare. I'm not sure this will tell you all there might be to hear because the two speakers are probably already different sounding because of room differences, but perhaps in your room these differences are negligible. I'd worry about them if I were measuring the speakers' frequency response in the room.  Also, depending on the recording's spectrum, it might be difficult to make a qualitative judgement while playing both speakers simultaneously even in mono.

My experience with the Nitro Bybee jumpers on my RM40s suggests that you will initially feel the difference is in frequency response but over longer listening sessions the transient nature of the sound seems more effected than its frequency response. This still could be caused by subtle frequency response changes, but Wayne's measurements of ICs with and without Bybees installed make it hard to support the differences I hear.

I applaud your attempts to quantify what you get (or don't) with the Bybees installed. I think it will prove to be interesting, labor-intensive and maybe a little frustrating to nail it all down though.

I wish you well and look forward to your observations and opinions as your experiment unfolds.  

Bob,

Since I have committed to this "upgrade," I will do one speaker first and compare it with other one.   I can play a mono LP to make sure they are both getting the same signal.

[Mad DOg]

I've tried bybees...both the old and new slipstream versions in my system...i've also heard the new slipstream versions in a friend's system...I'm not gonna say whether they're "good" or "bad" as it is all subjective based on preferences and gear. I highly recommend folks to try it themselves in their own systems and decide for themselves. I have no idea what is in a bybee, but what i do know is that it has affected the sound every time i've heard them.

[satfrat]

Robin,

I'm not saying that Bybees don't work (although I'd like to hear the results for myself), I'm just saying that I doubt his explanation is right.  Search on the internet for Quantum Noise -- it's almost always related to semiconductors.  Anyone near CT that has two of the exact same items, one with Bybees and without, that can be switched back and forth (preferably by having two sources, one with bybees and one without)?  I'd be more than happy to do a double blind test.  Any less than that, and I ...

Understood Bob, I hope you're able to try some out and find out for yourself if they do affect the sound and more importantly do you like what you're hearing. Foe me, it's a combination of Bybee's/Z-Sleeves. The increeased dynamics from the Bybee's & the signal clarity of the Z-Sleeves make for a very happy Robin Regards, Robin

[saluto1121]

SWG255 I agree with you.

[gongos]

I asked Brian of VMPS fame about adding bybees to his speakers, and he said he didn't like them and thought they killed dynamics.

[Pocketchange]

I was wondering if what the Bybee's are trying to do is concerning EMI?

I forget the name of the clip on Magnet surrounds, but they DID remove
a very small amount of line input and cost very little.  I cranked up the
volume with no input and clipped one on as close to a speaker as it would fit and did notice a slight noise reduction.  Found it on a tweakers forum...

If excessive "hissterous" is a problem wouldn't a outboard XO come into play to get things under control?  Until FSTs I had this situation to deal with,
since the 626Rs moved in, most of my listening is done with everything pretty much flat and the ssssstuff is gone and very live, sort of front row.



 

[SWG255]

I believe whether one will like what Bybees do is very system and preference dependent, but restricting the dynamics of any kind of music I listen to is not what they do in my system. Obviously Brian's "mileage may differ", and his system is certainly different from mine. If i were to change my power amp or speaker cable, I might feel differently, but so far with all the changes I've made since getting the Nitro jumpers with Bybees for my RM-40s, I have not felt the need to remove the Bybees. (the changes have been upgrade of my SCD-1 with the VSE level 4 mods, upgrading my IC between SCD-1 and preamp to Bolder Nitro, and upgrading my Motif MC-8 preamp to a Conrad-Johnson Premier 18LS)  My system is both warmer and more detailed than before these upgrades and I don't feel the Bybees have gotten in the way of these improvements.

[Tyson]

Have you disconnected the switch on the back of your 40's?  If not, I recommend doing it, it clears a bit of grunge out of the playback.  That, combined with the bybee jumpers, is a VERY nice improvement over stock.  Brian really liked the sound of my 40's, and I have bybee jumpers from Bolder Cables in place.

[SWG255]

Tyson,

When I ordered my RM-40S, I ordered them without the switch, because my dealer, Lucius at Dynamic Sound Audio,  suggested it would impair the sound and be one more thing to wear out some day. Sounds like that was good advice.

Have you disconnected the switch on the back of your 40's?  If not, I recommend doing it, it clears a bit of grunge out of the playback.  That, combined with the bybee jumpers, is a VERY nice improvement over stock.  Brian really liked the sound of my 40's, and I have bybee jumpers from Bolder Cables in place.

[lgeis]

Hey...ahhhh....ummm....errrr,

This is all very interesting to me, but I think, respectfully, that we are majoring in the minors and ignoring the real issues of human aural acuity.

If you, with human ears and uncalibrated hearing, are claiming to sense minute frequency characteristics and differences in distortion amounting to a quarter of a percent at less than 80db...well, you certainly leave me in the dust.

I must engage the limits and wild variability of human visual acuity in my profession...I am a technical photographer. I am not an expert in sound, but having had the opportunity to understand the challenges to human acuity of one sort, I'm confident, perhaps ignorantly, that we may and should consider our sensory limits on every front.

I think the first thing you should do before you judge your system is to visit an audiologist and have a complete checkup. I'd bet you'll be shocked to recognize your measured limits (under as ideal as possible circumstances, no less). Then consider whatever contextual problems you might encounter when listening to your system: Various pathologies, fatigue, ambient noise, all of which can and probably do exceed the tolerances of the phenomenae you're claiming to critique!

I know for a fact that the limits of human visual acuity are absolutely shocking...for example, you can be legally blind for a short time if you (your retinas) are flashed by oncoming headlights. Certain pathologies (diabetes, cataracts, etc.) profoundly degrade your visual acuity. One in thirteen males suffer some sort of clinically significant color blindness.

I'd be very surprised to find that there was not some corresponding mitigation of perception with our ears...especially in the realm of high frequency sensitivity. Somewhere I read that the blood rushing through our ears actually produces some significant db level...but I'm old and forget things easily. I think.

If we have an audiologist or otolaryngologist on the forum, please speak up!

[thegage]

It is easy to explain away "scientifically" that people must not be hearing what they say there. With all respect to Igeis, while there are limits on everything, it is a flawed argument to say that there are limits on SEEING so therefore there must be limits on HEARING that mean you can't hear Bybee changes. It is especially simplistic to dismiss something if you have never heard it.

At one time I had about fourteen Bybees throughout my system--from AC inputs, to in-line, to at the speaker drivers. I no longer have any in my system. Many people CAN hear that they do make an audible difference in their system. Whether or not you find that a beneficial change depends on your system and your listening preferences. I say, experiment and enjoy the journey.

John K.

[ctviggen]

While I bought some Bybees, I'd really like to do a blind test with them.  In other words, I'd be blindfolded while someone else randomly selects between two items -- one with bybees and one without.  I installed my bybees while changing interconnects and phase, so I'm not sure what did what.

[woodsyi]

You know I havn't put any Bybees yet.  I was waiting for the midwoofer upgrade to install them, but I may just go ahead with the bybees since the upgrade kit is delayed.  My plan is to install one large on the positve lead of both woofers, one larger on the positive lead of all neos, one silver slipstream on positive lead of FST and one large on the return just before the binding post.  I think I will do it on left speaker and test it against the right.  It will give me something to do and I won't feel like I have reached the end with these speakers.  By the way I am quite happy with the sound as it is.  

Happy tweaks.

[lgeis]

it is a flawed argument to say that there are limits on SEEING so therefore there must be limits on HEARING that mean you can't hear Bybee changes. It is especially simplistic to dismiss something if you have never heard it.

Well, I think we've identified part of the problem. As liberally as I re-read my words I can't find anything to substatiate assigning these claims to my post.

[woodsyi]

I finally got one speaker operated on.  As I was doing the midwoofer upgrade, I installed Bybees as well.  I put one large on positive going into all 4 Neos, one silver slipstream on positive going into FST, one large on negative just before the mid/high binding post and a large on positive going into new midwoofer -- I ran out of bybees or I would've put one going into basswoofer and one on return for both woofers.  On the other hand, it may be better not to "filter" woofers which require large transient current but I get ahead of myself.  I did this last night so I only have had about 2 hours of testing time so far and no "burn in" time for the new mid woofer or the bybees.  

There is a discernable difference between the speakers.  The new midwoofer definitely improves midbass as I can now hear the acoustic bass clearly on Sonny Rollins Collosus LP.  With this mono source, I just toggled left and right individually and I can hear the difference.  What about the Bybees you ask?  For this I used Eva Cassidy's songbird CD.  Most of the songs were recorded live and I didn't hear any channel difference in the past.  So, I toggled left and right as well as listening to each song in entirity using just one speaker at a time.  

Bybees make a difference.  The effect is similar to Dolby filter on tapes -- it filters out background noise at the expense of deadening the overall sound.  At first I was dissapointed because I never liked the "muted" sound of Dolby NR.  Then I tried something that changed that.  I noticed a drop in SPL on the Bybeed speaker and I adjusted the gain on my active x-over to match the perceived SPL from each speakers.  Voila, the "mutedness" went away.  The biggest difference is in the level of purity in Eva's voice.  On the song "Fields of Gold" there are a lot of esses that sounds somewhat sibilant through my DAC.  Bybees take all of that out.  Her enunciation is clear with no hint of sibilance.  Once you hear it clear, it makes you wonder how the sibilance didn't bother you before.  I will have to do more testing with more genre of music, but I like it so far.

[BobMajor]

I have 19 Bybees in my system. I've found that they require a lot of breakin time. I'd suggest 200 hours before you'll really hear something close to what they'll be like when fully broken in (two to three months). Every time I've added them in some cable or other I've noticed a more natural sense to the soundstage and the sounds themselves.

[woodsyi]

Bob,

Good to know that they get even better.  From the drop in SPL I would guess that it lowers the efficiency of speakers when added in line to drivers.  As I tri amp and use high power amps, I don't anticipate any problems, but high efficiency speakers with SET amps may suffer.

[BobMajor]

I forgot to mention that I have 4 Bybees in each of my 626R put in by Brian when he made them. I have the silver slipstream Bybee attached to the FST tweeter and the regulars on the other two drivers and one on the negative side.
To me the speakers were completely lackluster until about 200 hours. I played them about 2 hours per day for the next two months when they stabilized.
Best wishes,
Bob

[lifewithmusic]

What impact, if any, do the Bybees make on micro and macro dynamics?