[Steve]

Hi Psychicanimal,

 My CI passive smoked a $3500 Presence Audio tube pre. "

Just wanted to mention, not pointing the finger at you, as this comment is typical of many, but there is one major factor that needs to be considered.

This factor is that the gain stage (that is not in the passive controller) is, in many cases, "installed" in the amplifier.
 
Another way of putting it is that many amp companies have an extra gain stage to get the sensitivity of the amp to the point where a direct connection can be made from the source (thru the passive of course).

My question is what is the quality of that first gain stage in the amp? This first gain stage could cause a great deal of sonic degradation itself, being worst than the preamp's stage of amplification. We really don't know.

What if we exchanged the first stage of the amplifier (and the passive controller) with the active preamp's gain stage (with it's own volume control)? The preamp's gain stage could make the amp/system to sound even better than when the amp's first gain stage is connected. (Of course, the system might sound worse because it was better quality and not compensating for an amp's own weaknsses as the amps "first stage" was designed to. This may be a case for purchasing a preamp and amp from the same company type of thing.)

From all the schematics I have seen over the years, the amps 1st stage is rarely, if ever, designed as well as a great preamp's gain stage. IC problems? Well, yes. Great care must be taken if this isn't to be an issue.

Of course, a preamplifier could easily sound worse when designed poorly (even though expensive). But one cannot tell until one does some extensive testing.

Hope this doesn't sound like a lecture Physic. Just thought it might be an opportune opening to help in understanding in an area where not much is mentioned.

[Psychicanimal]

I have no electronics knowledge, I just use my ears.  The system I made the comparison in is pretty expensive and with excellent power delivery/noise control measures.  The transport was a CEC and the DAC a Dodson 217.  For $3500 I'd expect more...

[Steve]

Didn't mean to cause a problem. Others on different chat sites often do comparisons and I see many who post that passives are superior, but forget that there is a gain stage that needs to be included. And that place is either in the amplifier or the source.

Take care my friend.

[Psychicanimal]

Didn't mean to cause a problem. Others on different chat sites often do comparisons and I see many who post that passives are superior, but forget that there is a gain stage that needs to be included. And that place is either in the amplifier or the source.

Take care my friend.

There's no problem that I see...or psychically sense.

I use the passive followed by a Marchand X-9 Deluxe electronic x-over modded by Dan Wright.  The results are spectacular.

You have to agree, $3500 is a LOT of money.  I can buy a rebuilt engine for my BMW for that kind of money!!!

[Steve]

I use the passive followed by a Marchand X-9 Deluxe electronic x-over modded by Dan Wright. The results are spectacular.

Yes, I see your system now.  

You have to agree, $3500 is a LOT of money. I can buy a rebuilt engine for my BMW for that kind of money!!!

$3500, well yes. But when you can "see" and place everything, it is wonderful.

Take care my friend.

[doug s.]

...You have to agree, $3500 is a LOT of money. I can buy a rebuilt engine for my BMW for that kind of money!!! ...

i can buy an entire CAR for $2000, that will run circles around yer ol' bimmer!     old alfas RULE!!!  

doug s.