[Crossoverless]

Those Beryllium Drivers take a long time to break-in Good and Sound their BEST...around 600 to 800 hours and sometimes even longer than that! so I think I will find one of these Focal Utopia headphones on the used market pretty soon after they come on the market! 

[kingdeezie]

Those Beryllium Drivers take a long time to break-in Good and Sound their BEST...around 600 to 800 hours and sometimes even longer than that! so I think I will find one of these Focal Utopia headphones on the used market pretty soon after they come on the market! 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/worlds-best-headphone-focal-utopia#KU6rZ4kHT9p1XpIV.97

Might be waiting a while for a used version. I hope mine ships soonish. 

[Crossoverless]

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/worlds-best-headphone-focal-utopia#KU6rZ4kHT9p1XpIV.97

Might be waiting a while for a used version. I hope mine ships soonish. 

From what I heard from this reviewer tells me that these Utopia headphones may not have been...broken-in really good yet.. and I'm shocked he did not hook up a balance cable to this headphone so we could find out how much better they sounded in balance mode!

[Rocket_Ronny]

Would love the Utopia phones but 4 grand is a bit obscene in my books. I do appreciate the hard work Focal has done on them, just hard to justify the outlay personally.

Rocket Ronny

[dB Cooper]

It's not hard for me to justify the outlay....
It's impossible!

Remember the "shock and awe" when the Sennheiser HD800 was introduced at $1499?

FWIW, Tyll Hertsens gave a rave review recently in innerfi to the "baby brother" Elear model at a bargain-priced $999. So if one isn't too proud to "slum it" a little, I guess that would be the more reasonable option.

[Crossoverless]

Would love the Utopia phones but 4 grand is a bit obscene in my books. I do appreciate the hard work Focal has done on them, just hard to justify the outlay personally.

Rocket Ronny

No...spending $55,000 on the Sennheiser Orpheus headphones that don't sound as good as the Focal Utopia headphones would be a bit obscene...don't you think?

Buying the 4k Utopia headphones that is the new.. world's best headphones.. is not that bad when you think about it that way...don't you think?

[dB Cooper]

Have you heard the Orpheus and the Utopia personally?

If "no', then you don't know (as I freely admit I don't)- but I'm not buying either one unless I hit the powerball so WTF do I care which is better. Maybe they both suck! So-and-so's opinion is just that- an opinion. It's worth everything you paid for it. "Opinions are like a**h***s- everybody has one and they all stink."

[Guy 13]

Have you heard the Orpheus and the Utopia personally?

If "no', then you don't know (as I freely admit I don't)- but I'm not buying either one unless I hit the powerball so WTF do I care which is better. Maybe they both suck! So-and-so's opinion is just that- an opinion. It's worth everything you paid for it. "Opinions are like a**h***s- everybody has one and they all stink."

 

[kingdeezie]

It's not hard for me to justify the outlay....
It's impossible!

Remember the "shock and awe" when the Sennheiser HD800 was introduced at $1499?

FWIW, Tyll Hertsens gave a rave review recently in innerfi to the "baby brother" Elear model at a bargain-priced $999. So if one isn't too proud to "slum it" a little, I guess that would be the more reasonable option.

I am new to headphones, at least in the audiophile sense.

After going to several different headphone forums, I am actually pretty shocked at how dismissive and indignant people are over these high priced items.

People spend 40K on speakers, 20K on preamps, 20K on DACs, 50K on turntables, cleaning products, cables, etc, etc in a traditional stereo system.

A 4K headphone, which is likely to be considered a reference for the entirety of headphone design for the foreseeable future, and people are angry about it?

How laughable is the cost of a 4K pair of headphones, in comparison to a 25K EMM DAC, or worse yet, a 10K power cable?

Why, specifically in the headphone arena, are people so angrily turned off by cost? 

My wife watches "Say Yes to the Dress." Its a whole show dedicated to people spending sometimes THREE TIMES the cost of a pair of these Utopias, for a dress they wear one day. A great set of headphones can last you years, and provide countless hours of stress relief and enjoyment.

I think its great that other companies are coming out, and pushing the envelope. The more genuine competition, the better the products will be, and the cheaper greatness will be attainable.

The Focal Elear is supposed to be excellent, and a game changer at the price. In a few years, the Elears performance might even be significantly cheaper, because of progress in the esoteric sector; trickle down. Isn't that a good thing?

[FullRangeMan]

King,
The parts count for a hp is very small, a pair of drivers and a wire, this may justify $4 grand for some deep pockets guys not me.

The time spent on research&design is minimal, the technology is all available for free on reverse engineering.

[FullRangeMan]

Dale, sorry to disagree with you, in my personal opinion the price of a hp should not be linked to its performance even if it is high-end, but to the amount parts+labor spent on its construction.

[dB Cooper]

People spend 40K on speakers, 20K on preamps, 20K on DACs, 50K on turntables, cleaning products, cables, etc, etc in a traditional stereo system.

No they don't. I mean, they do, but only a fringe. I bought my first audio system in my mid teens for $330 (about $2500 in today's money.) I saved allowance, did odd jobs etc, for a year to do it. As I approached college age, and further into adulthood, most of my friends had some form of component audio system. They may not have been high-end, but they provided satisfying music in the home (some better than others of course).

Today, I hardly know anybody who has a component audio system in their home anymore. Those that do, it tends to be a 'home theater' system whose main attribute seems to be pumping out lots of low frequency noise on explosions. Or one of those tabletop Bluetooth speaker systems. I think people over the years spent too much money on upgrades that weren't really improvements, format proliferation whose main purpose was to get them to buy the same music repeatedly, and the like. My point is, having a decent audio system that delivered satisfying music in the home didn't use to be just for the wel-to-do. Yes, a good system always cost good money, but there's no middle ground anymore. At the last capital audio fest, the least expensive system was, as always, the Odyssey system which came in at $7000 not including any kind of front end. There was a huge gulf between the cost of that system and the vast majority of other systems of the show. Now the same thing is happening to headphones, for the same reasons-most manufacturers would rather sell 100 $4000 headphones than 1000 $400 headphones.

How laughable is the cost of a 4K pair of headphones, in comparison to a 25K EMM DAC, or worse yet, a 10K power cable?

I think the $25,000 DAC wins the laughability contest pretty easily over the $4000 headphones, but the $10,000 power cable example takes the cake.

Anyone is free to spend whatever they've got on whatever they want, but the law of diminishing returns does apply in audio as much as it does in any other endeavor, maybe more so.


FullRangeMan, I see your point but... Delivering performance does cost money, it's just that a lot of the money spent on high-end audio isn't spent for performance, it's spent for 'perceived value' and status. Half-inch-thick face plates with elaborate filigree work (for example) don't affect performance at all, but they do say 'Expensive', which some people want.

[Rocket_Ronny]

I just see the runaway cost of headphones and amps following the out of control pricing of high end audio. It's just sad to have it happening. If I was to buy a headphone without listening first it would be the Utopias. I am quite sure I would love them and do actually want a pair, but they would end up being over 5 grand in Canada, plus amp. At least there is it's little brother.

Rocket Ronny

[Crossoverless]

It's sad but the prices keep going up because they know they can get away with it!!

You have to spend big money now to get reference sound! They just want a few of us to enjoy it!! BUT this hobby has been slowly dying for many years now because of the greed!!

[Armaegis]

Part of it I assume is simply to have a "statement" piece that they know only a few people will buy, but it creates the prestige that will boost the sales of the lower end products.

[hibuckhobby]

Dale, sorry to disagree with you, in my personal opinion the price of a hp should not be linked to its performance even if it is high-end, but to the amount parts+labor spent on its construction.

Have to disagree with you FRM.  First, you have stated they can be reverse engineered.  In other words...a copy can be made after someone else spent the time and effort to figure out how to make them in the first place.  Second, design is both an art and a craft.  It costs money in part because not everyone can do it.  We pay not just for their time, but for what they know.  Third, the equipment to make some of the parts, like vapor deposited metal domes is very expensive and that cost must be recouped.  Last, statement items cost more because they are not for mass market and won't sell as many.  If people will pay the price, it is not obscene...just higher than some will pay for that last small bit of performance.

Hibuck...

[DaveC113]

IMO, $4k is a bargain for what they are. They feature 40mm beryllium drivers... much smaller beryllium tweeters are easily $1k/pair and you can spend that much for just Be diaphragms for compression drivers.

I don't own headphones and don't plan on it in the near future, but people complaining about price are ridiculous imo. As if their personal wealth and values should apply to everyone, it's laughable.

[DaveC113]

It's sad but the prices keep going up because they know they can get away with it!!

You have to spend big money now to get reference sound! They just want a few of us to enjoy it!! BUT this hobby has been slowly dying for many years now because of the greed!!

You're totally wrong. The industry is simply a reflection of the market. Think about it... there's not one company out there building gear for an imaginary market, in fact the extreme high end is not even embraced by many manufacturers, they build the gear because the market DEMANDS it.

What you're seeing is the erosion of the middle market, the low end and high end of the audio market are doing just fine. Why is this? Well, politics aren't allowed here but I can say the simple fact is the middle class is not financially secure any more and can't afford luxury goods on the level they used to before 2008. This hits all industries, even Hershey's chocolates restructured their product line to higher or lower end products with less middle end goods.

Blaming an industry for it's market's buying habits doesn't seem logical to me, but I see it all the time. It's seriously misguided... 

Also, it seems clear there is a lot of hate for folks who do have the money for $4k headphones, and this is misguided as well. Most people with a lot of money didn't hurt you to get their money, in fact it's likely it's just the opposite. Of course there are exceptions to everything, but in general there seems to be a very distorted view of the audio industry, especially the high end and those who can afford high end products. Jealousy, blaming, etc. do no one any good.

[Crossoverless]

You're totally wrong. The industry is simply a reflection of the market. Think about it... there's not one company out there building gear for an imaginary market, in fact the extreme high end is not even embraced by many manufacturers, they build the gear because the market DEMANDS it.

What you're seeing is the erosion of the middle market, the low end and high end of the audio market are doing just fine. Why is this? Well, politics aren't allowed here but I can say the simple fact is the middle class is not financially secure any more and can't afford luxury goods on the level they used to before 2008. This hits all industries, even Hershey's chocolates restructured their product line to higher or lower end products with less middle end goods.

Blaming an industry for it's market's buying habits doesn't seem logical to me, but I see it all the time. It's seriously misguided... 

Also, it seems clear there is a lot of hate for folks who do have the money for $4k headphones, and this is misguided as well. Most people with a lot of money didn't hurt you to get their money, in fact it's likely it's just the opposite. Of course there are exceptions to everything, but in general there seems to be a very distorted view of the audio industry, especially the high end and those who can afford high end products. Jealousy, blaming, etc. do no one any good.

 I disagree ! This hobby is out of control ! Greed!

[Rocket_Ronny]

there is a lot of hate for folks who do have the money for $4k headphones

Hate is the wrong word. Unhappy is better. It's not an issue of not having the money, it's one of whether one wants to spend such an amount on headphones.

In Focal's defense, the Utopia's do have the magical BE driver, on a surround no less, high end magnets, and carbon fiber arms - now that is costly. So yes, they are offering a lot, just wish it was more like 2 grand instead of 4. 2 grand seems to me to be a top number one should have to pay for top flight headphones. From the consumers point of view.

So let's hear what the early adopters have to say about how they sound.

Rocket Ronny