[JLM]

We lose power occasionally out here in the country (average 50 hours per year but the worst was a 6+ day outage).  So we had a nice 2nd hand portable, but it recently has been refusing to start.  My small engine guy says it's beyond repair.  As I enter my 60's started looking for electric start and considering the weight of hauling it in and out of the garage to test monthly/use I sought alternatives.  Plus wifey wants a hot tub (we'd prepped for one when we built 11 years ago).

So decided to go fixed (connected to our propane service).  Come to find out, getting a 22 kW (that will handle the entire house with hot tub) costs only $400 more than a 15 kW and uses very little additional fuel, so a no brainer. 

So just got it installed 3 days ago (with a cold weather kit).  It will automatically go through a test run every Wednesday at 2PM for 12 minutes.  No more lugging the portable in and out of the garage, pull starting, keeping gasoline on hand through the winter, flipping circuits on/off (as the portable was only 5 kW), or training wifey how to do all that.  And no worries about the future hot tub freezing or turning into mold soup.

Already had a power blip (like 1 second) and sure enough it didn't start (just like it's supposed to). 

[Guy 13]

Congratulation for your new stationary-fix generator.
We have power shortage an average of once a month.
They say it's for the network up-grade - improvement.
Plus, they seems to have an automatic (Or man operated) shut-off system,
that when it rains heavily, the power will shut-off to avaoid the grid - network
to be damaged by lightning.
For 20 years + I laways dream of getting a small generator, just big enough
to keep the refrigirator going and the TV and a few lights.
But like they say: No money, no candy.
I am now use to it and I can live without it...

Guy 13

[martyo]

What brand and model?

[ctviggen]

I'm interested to hear your opinion.  I've heard mixed reviews of those. For instance, some people say they use a lot of propane even though no power outages have occurred.  On the other hand, I agree with you about the small generators.  They are a bear to start and really allow you only to operate a few circuits, enough for some lights and heat and water (maybe not at all the same time), but that's about it.

[TomS]

We were getting ready to pull the trigger on one too. Our neighbor across the street has a 22kw Generac natural gas whole house genset, and there are many just like it on our lake here. As is typical where we live in a remote area, we had a ~6 hr outage a couple weeks ago. I noticed their unit never kicked on, turns out it had a bad alternator, and apparently 2 bad batteries, despite an annual service contract by a guy who I thought was a pretty good dealer. About an hour before the power came back on, they finally got it running. Then it proceeded to run all night after the power came back on, still going strong in the morning, despite power being restored hours before. I believe that was a problem in the transfer switch. Honestly, I'd be disappointed after ~$8k spent, regular test exercising, plus the annual maintenance. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of alternatives locally so you pick your poison. Lesson is it doesn't run much, but you have to really stay after it maintenance wise, or it's a waste of money for when you really need it.

[JLM]

Generac 22 kW, model # G00655449

According to their website the generator will use 2.2 gallons/hour at 1/2 of maximum load.  With the weekly testing and with our outage history it should run 60 hours per year and so use about 130 gallons.

Yeah, I'd be very disappointed too.  Annual maintenance is $85 from the installer, a member (master electrician) from our church.


Note that going bigger gets you into water cooled design that are superior, but increases costs significantly.

[ctviggen]

130 gallons = $336.70 at our prices for propane (which is what this would be on where I live).  However, it might prevent a tank rental, which is $8/month if it kicks you over a certain amount (500 gallons?). 

[zybar]

130 gallons = $336.70 at our prices for propane (which is what this would be on where I live).  However, it might prevent a tank rental, which is $8/month if it kicks you over a certain amount (500 gallons?).

You are paying $2.59/gallon?

That is a $1/gallon more expensive then I am payingi in southern NH.

Back to the original topic...what did the generator run and what was the installation cost?

When I looked into a Generac 22kw unit (propane also) I was quoted around $12-14k installed.

George

[TomS]

You are paying $2.59/gallon?

That is a $1/gallon more expensive then I am payingi in southern NH.

Back to the original topic...what did the generator run and what was the installation cost?

When I looked into a Generac 22kw unit (propane also) I was quoted around $12-14k installed.

George

George,

That 22kw nat gas unit here is ~$6-7k with 200a switch plus another $1k to install depending on conditions. We use natural gas, but have to upgrade the gas meter for higher capacity, and add ~100' run of 1"+ line to place the unit where it is allowed to be for our zoning ordinance. Unfortunately, that's ~$1k by itself.

[HAL]

Has anyone measured the Generac units for AC output distortion under load?  Last 10KW diesel generator I worked with the THD was very high.  IIRC it was around 21% THD with a 1200 watt resistive heater load.  My 126VAC@60Hz wall power is 2%THD.  That also probably means the DC component is pretty high.

That might be good to know for the loads you are trying to run off the generator.  Some stuff like the music system might be best left off if it is high THD.  When I was looking at Generac's they did not list a waveform distortion spec.  Would be interesting to know.

Edit:
The new spec sheet says the 22KW unit has less than 5%THD for the AC output.   

[zybar]

George,

That 22kw nat gas unit here is ~$6-7k with 200a switch plus another $1k to install depending on conditions. We use natural gas, but have to upgrade the gas meter for higher capacity, and add ~100' run of 1"+ line to place the unit where it is allowed to be for our zoning ordinance. Unfortunately, that's ~$1k by itself.

Wow! That seems pretty reasonable.

If I could have done this for $7-9k, I probably have pulled the trigger.

I just couldn't stomach the north of $10k price.

George

[JLM]

I paid the electrician $7900 which included the generator, installation, a cold weather kit, and a small treated lumber deck (versus the standard plastic pad as the site was sloped).  Again above 22 kW the Generac generators go to the better but more expensive water cooled units.

Don't have a total project cost yet (waiting for the propane company's bill for hooking up/testing).  And we need some drywall repair done related to the transfer switch installation.  Both should be minimal as thankfully the propane line from the tank to the regulator was of adequate size to accommodate the additional load and the generator is located 11 feet from the regulator (we simply mounted the pipe on the outside of our deck).  The drywall repairs are fairly minimal, replacement of a 3ft x 4ft section in a utility room.

Note that I designed the house and tried my best to account for future stuff (like our 2015 PV solar installation and wifey's hot tub).

Never had a problem running the computers, stereo, or TVs under the old portable generator, so I don't expect a problem with this one.

I probably over estimated the annual propane use as the only fuel consumption data Generac provides is under 1/2 and full load.  Our supplier  is currently offering pre-buy pricing of $1.169/gallon (last year was $1.19/gallon).  Unfortunately they have no way of predicting usage with the generator so I'll have to keep an eye on the tank gauge (they tell me remote/wireless gauges aren't reliable).

[Phil A]

Has anyone measured the Generac units for AC output distortion under load?  Last 10KW diesel generator I worked with the THD was very high.  IIRC it was around 21% THD with a 1200 watt resistive heater load.  My 126VAC@60Hz wall power is 2%THD.  That also probably means the DC component is pretty high.

That might be good to know for the loads you are trying to run off the generator.  Some stuff like the music system might be best left off if it is high THD.  When I was looking at Generac's they did not list a waveform distortion spec.  Would be interesting to know.

Edit:
The new spec sheet says the 22KW unit has less than 5%THD for the AC output.

I have a gasoline (Generac) one (I'm overdue to test it).  Knock wood, I've never done anything except test it for the past year and half and just plugged a power tool into it and ran that for a few seconds.  It can run likely verything except the AC (and I have ceiling fans).  I had the generator panel installed and got the portable generator for an emergency (keep the fridge and lights running for a day is fine).

Many moons ago in Northern VA we had a big storm and while I was out only a few hours where a friend live they had no electricity for a few days.  He said his neighbor needed something to use the unit with his stereo but when I went over there it was just a matter of a long extension cord.  I only heard his neighbor's system a few times but was familiar with the electronics (and I sold him the speaker cables) and speakers. I don't remember what type of generator he had but it sounded a drop edgy to me.

[JLM]

When testing it's best to put it under a load (after starting, heavy load is best).  I used an electric resistance heater, not ideal but easy.


Followups:

BTW the propane company charged $150 to make the connection (for a very simply installation).

The first week of ownership I never heard the generator self-test.  Maybe I slept through it, or maybe it didn't start?

Just checked, our pre-buy price for propane for the next year is $1.169/gallon (last year was $1.199/gallon).