[Mathew_M]

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?cablpowr&1050380500

I assembled one of these the other day and have been burning it in.  For $65 total cost shipped and about an hour of my time I'm pretty impressed.  It's my first DIY (why not start at the source) and aside from a wire that wouldn't stay put, it was pretty easy .   Ernie provides detailed directions though a few illustrations would be nice for novices like myself.  If you decide to order one of these make sure to test continuity before plugging any components in.  

Already I have noticed about 5% overall improvement in sound with the PoBox.  The nicest thing is the swing that certain music has acquired that wasnt' quite there before.  Hard to explain until you hear it.  Also more ambiant cues and air around instruments.  Again I'm very happy  

[audioengr]

Since this is about sharing, I will give you some tips:

1) Always run the forward and return wiring close together, preferably twisted together.  This will keep the inductance down.
2) Use Harris Freds or Motorola Schottkey diodes for the rectifiers and make sure they have a high current rating for the intial charge current.
3) twist the + and - leads together in the umbilical connecting cable to keep the inductance low.
4) If there is one high-current supply and several low-current supplies, connect the ground wires together at both ends of the umbilical to keep the voltage drops the same.

[JoshK]

Thanks for the tips Steve!  I had been thinking about building one of these myself for my HT.

[BlackCat]

I just put one together over the weekend, as per almost this recipe:

http://www.audiotweaks.com/diy/ac_outletc/page01.htm

I didn't use the stove cord, bought some bulk 4 wire 10-guage stuff at Home Despot for 91 cents (US) per foot, instead of the hospital grade outlets, I got Eagle commercial grade 20 amp outlets, and a Bryant (made by Hubbell) commercial grade AC plug, I did the serial connections with 10 guage solid core rat shack wire.  Total cost was around $20.  Took about 30 minutes.  Haven't had a chance to evaluate for sound yet, I'm not expecting any real surprises, but it will clean up my "wire web" running to two different wall outlets and make my wife happier.

[BOK]

I have used the POBox, with Belden 83802, and P&S 5266-X AC plug, as well as two P&S 5262A receptacles.  Very nice.  

But I needed 6 outlets, so I picked up a used PS Audio Juice Bar.  After 4 weeks with that bright nickel plating ringing in my ears (it just wore on me and was not a good system match) I dusted off the PoBox and made a few changes.

Popped in two audioexcellenceaz double cryo'd Hubbell 5362's receptacles and replaced the 5266-X with the audioex's doubled cryo'd Hubbell 8215C AC plug.  What a delight that was to get back to the smoother and warmer presentation.

Still have two amps (surrounds) on the J Bar, but the front stage is clean and extended.  May have to revisit the surrounds later.

My wall receptacles are also audioex's double cryo, so the addition of the cryo'd outlet box was more than consistent with the improvements brought by the wall receptacle upgrade.

[CE]

How does an AC wiring device have sound qualitys?

[beat]

Hello all,
I've been searching everywhere for teflon jacketed 12awg or bigger power cable..I can't find any. The closest I found is a belden 16awg silverplate..Then I thought why not use some high quality occ ofc 12awg high strand count speaker cable? It would be nice and flexible to boot.

[CE]

THIS WOULD BE BECAUSE, YOU HAVE VERY HIGH TEMPERATURES INVOLVED?  PTFE has what audio qualitys? www.alliedelec.com has all kinds of wire...so does Newark Electronics.  or www.partsexpress.com  But plese tell me what you expect Teflon insualtion to do when used at room temps for speaker wire?  Do you know why PTFE wire is made?  For what applications?  It ain't speaker wire.

[beat]

well I'm no expert but teflon covered wire/cable is quite common and often used in speaker cable. The way I understand it is (in a nutshell) that current flows more fluidly through it with less skin effect. So in a way it acts as though the conductor has a bigger awg. As far as teflons audio qualities in ac I'm not sure but intend to find out. As I said I'm no electrical engineer but I am an industrial designer so it is in my blood to look for ways to implement different technologies and materials. An oft used term is ptfe is like the holy grail of dielectrics. BTW, I like the way that allied site is laid out, very useful, thanks

[markC]

Beat,
Both Chris Venhaus' site and Take 5 Audio offer teflon insulated mutistrand 12 awg. Chris' site offers shielded or not, Take 5, belden 8302 or 8303 both shielded.

[beat]

thanks mark,
that belden was in the category I was looking at. I forgot about the venhaus site..maybe it was the 1.99 per foot that helped me forget.. I read the specs on the belden 83029 and says it has a capacity of 300v. That should be enough for like a cdp, wouldn't you say?

[markC]

That should be enough for like a cdp, wouldn't you say?

Um..Ya! I just ordered 10' of the non-shielded from Chris and my plugs and iec's arrived thurs. from Take 5. I'm going to build a pair of the flavour 2 pcs for my amp. If they perform well, I'll order up some shielded wire and make one for my cdp. Then of coarse I'll need another cord for my tube pre....

[beat]

Im sure you'll love em! I was at the surplus store yesterday and found some silver plated 10awg fine strand (not ptfe) and some 8awg not so fine stranded, twisted pair, heavily insulated cable with the ground as a braided fine strand shield running like a sheath over the outside of the cable..I'll try to post a pic later. I thought this would make a good long run power box. AT 2 bucks a pound I got a steal. The 10awg I wove into a 4 conductor braid and terminated it with hospital grade plugs I got for a dollar each there. ya..i scored. They also had premade belden IEC power cords NOS for 3 dollars with 14ga conductors. There is a number referring to the exact wire used which I will add later as I am at work now (If it is noteworthy wire I pick some up for anyone interested) I put one on my cdp just to see what the difference would be from stock and I like it for a 3 dollar tweak. The soundstage is much more refined.
        Turns out the belden 308xx series is silicone jacket over tinned copper with a laquered glass shield on each of the 3 14awg cond. Pretty nice, If anyone wants one at my cost of 3 bucks plus shipping PM me.

[markC]

You scored large, Beat! Surplus store eh...

[CE]

Im sure you'll love em! I was at the surplus store yesterday and found some silver plated 10awg fine strand (not ptfe) and some 8awg not so fine stranded, twisted pair, heavily insulated cable with the ground as a braided fine strand shield running like a sheath over the outside of the cable..I'll try to post a pic later. I thought this would make a good long run power box. AT 2 bucks a pound I got a steal. The 10awg I wove into a 4 conductor braid and terminated it with hospital grade plugs I got for a dollar each there. ya..i scored. They also had premade belden IEC power cords NOS for 3 dollars with 14ga conductors. There is a number referring to the exact wire used which I will add later as I am at work now (If it is noteworthy wire I pick some up for anyone interested) I put one on my cdp just to see what the difference would be from stock and I like it for a 3 dollar tweak. The soundstage is much more refined.

How does a power cord change the sound of a Cd player? this kind of statements make me crazy.  What is a "refined" soundstage, what is all this babble anyway?

[beat]

well CE,
Do you believe that changing interconnects and speaker cables make a difference? If so, it is that same idea. Power moving through your copper or silver or gold plated whatever will be converted to movement at your speaker, right? If the electricity has to travel down the equivalent of a dirt road (crappy bent up 20awg aluminum) it will be converted to sound by the speaker in the condition it is recieved by the speaker..jostled and road weary. If the speaker gets the information as though it just slid down a freshly paved freeway it will sound more like the information did when it left your amplifier. If you don't believe this basic truth you are in the wrong forum. PCs will make a less marked difference but you can think of it as being a stream of water your equipment has to drink from. If it is abundant it will never be starved for what it needs and there again, is that water going to be full of air bubbles as though squirt with pressure through an aerator? Or is it going to be like that of a garden hose without a nozzle? OR think of it like cheap gas in your car.. If you have a well tuned car with good gas it doesnt work as hard and it runs more relaxed and actually seems to enjoy being driven fast...what ever works for you. hope that helps. If you've never experienced a "soundstage" you need to go visit a good hifi shop. It is like when your room and head is filled with music rather than just coming out of the speakers.

[CE]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you have any knowledge of electronics?  crappy bent 20guage AL wire?  the sound gets converted by the speaker in the condition  it was received!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????  This is so far beyond my comprehension of nonsense, I almost fell out of my chair!!!!!!!!!!!! If I have ever experienced a "soundstage"  I think my Bi-amped Legacy Focus speakers, can do some lifelike music reproduction, at life like LEVELS too.  bi-amped with 2 AVA/Hafler DH500 amps  into 4 ohm Legacies, we be talking around 1200 watts RMS, available.  Soundstage, these things are LIVe dude..with the Impact and slam of LIVE music, not just soundstage, you need a dose of some high end SACD LIVe reprodcution, don't be patronizing me.  About stuff..my car runs just fine on Any gas ya put in it.  129,000 miles on my Jetta GLX..never a problem, guess what, GAS is GAS, it comes from the same distribution centers for all the stations.  you think Shell gas is different from Exxon, or BP is not the same stuff out of the Exxon refinery. I've been told by people in the refinerys and labs , buy the cheapest gas you can find, it's all from the same place.  Wha't different is the commercials that have you mesmerized  Dude, you are extremely challenged in reality. Starved for power, both 500 watts RMS amps have simple 16 guage zip cord for an AC line cord...do you have any knowledge of anything in electronics?  An 18 ga zip cord SPT-1 (do you know what  stranded parallel tinsel cord  is? SPT look on the wire.  18 ga is good for 10 amps, 16 I think is good for about 11 I don't have my information in front of me.  If it is HPT-1 (heater cord) it's higher tem insulation, that means it can handle a higher current, DUH, check out some NEMA spces.  There is no sound in AC cords...there is voltage and current specs..THAT's IT.  And insualtion ratings for different enviorments.!!!! hot cold, hard useage, you are a big dope.  With all due respect.  There is no sound in interconects or speaker wire, you need to lay off the full page glossy ads, you are completely ignorant about FACTS.

[beat]

If your stuff is so much better than us lowly people trying to tweak out what we own with what we can afford (and obviously it is) and you're so damn smart why did you chime in acting like you were so astonished and didn't know anything. I was trying to help you, jerk. With simple analogies such as the heart is like a pump..which mine is doing a little faster than normal right now. I never told you your stuff sucked I never insulted your inteligence or car or choice of gas.. FYI I have never even so much as held any sort of audiophile mag in my hand much less read abunch "glossies" but I know what my ears hear. By the way you can't finish a sentence with calling someone a dope and then start the next with "with all due respect". You sir are unkind. Why are you here anyway?

[beat]

You posed the questions, did you just expect or want me to say.....oh yeah, nevermind me/us, this whole subject that we are talking about is nothing..there is no difference between kimbers, purists, zip cord, or diy? NO, I suspect you were only looking for a fight.

[subaruguru]

Matthew, glad you like my PoBox, and sorry I'm not digitally conversant enough to provide pics....
Others may wish to know that I process the all-Teflon dielectric Belden 83000 Series cables to stabilize the dielectrics fully so that "burn in" is nearly fully resolved, and then assemble DIY PC Kits and loose cable for Dedicated Lines, as well the PoBoxes to terminate them or with a PC attached as a power "strip/block".

To someone who asked about Teflon as a dielectric, the attributes that are important to us are NOT its temperature resistance, but its chemical (and therefore electrical) inertness. Its dielectric effects are the lowest of any insulative material (except air), and as such it just "gets out of the way" more easily than anything else. It certainly can't make a conductive wire sound larger, as mentioned, but does provide less phase-related distortions.  Yet like most plastics that are machined, extruded, or injection-molded, there can be residual potential stresses from fabrication.
Relieving these stresses is what I believe is at the root of cable "burn in".
I'm using a process I helped develop in the 80s to "cure" large molded PVDF cases for lab measuring equipment, completely resolving their long-term "creep" potentials.  I apply this curing process to the Belden 83000 cable spools I buy, so that the products I (or you) assemble are very nearly fully burned in right out of the box, so to speak.

RSVP for more info. The PCKits are $39-55, from 13 to 11AWG, and include outer SWITCHABLE safety-ground as well as shield "drain" for comparison on the fly. Thanks. Ernie M