Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?

jtwrace · « **Reply #20 on:** 13 Jul 2016, 07:01 pm »

Quote from: glynnw on 13 Jul 2016, 06:30 pm

Can't wait until I have a couple hundred hours on them.

100 should do just fine if you run them really hard. Think turn them up until it's too loud and then some more. Seriously.

logdar · « **Reply #21 on:** 16 Jul 2016, 05:13 pm »

Blueone - did you receive your speakers yet? I ordered mine on the 11th so I'm wondering what the lag time is. (I also just received a Red Dragon S500 and I ordered an Emotiva Stealth DAC/Preamp. I'm going to get an NAD M51 as well and see which DAC/Preamp I like the best. Although I'm wondering if i should have just bought an OPPO 103 and be done with it - since it has a CD/DVD player, good DAC (?), and preamp combined, an everyone seems to like it).

Jseymour - regarding your SDS-470C. Thanks for the advice - seems like a good unit, and they actually aren't far away from me. It doesn't have a remote, and mine would go in a ventilated cabinet. Seems like a hassle to open the cabinet, reach to the side of the amp to turn it off, then close the cabinet every time I want to watch TV or listen to music. Do you just leave yours on all the time? Any idea on how much the 'idle' power draw is?

-Thanks-

jseymour · « **Reply #22 on:** 16 Jul 2016, 05:44 pm »

I leave the SDS-470 on all the time. I don't know what the current draw is, but being a Class D amp it should not be very much. I also leave my PC, Yellowtec converter and Schitt Yggy on all the time. The things I turn off are my PC monitor, Jaton preamp and external USB drive.

CSI · « **Reply #23 on:** 16 Jul 2016, 06:16 pm »

Reading this thread, it is clear to me that the M3's and M4's will sound great with almost any decent amp - ss or tube, 10 watts to 500 watts. I strongly agree that an optimum set up, if budget allows, is the LIO with MOSFET module. The Red Dragon S500 is a step up but it is not a necessity. I have them both. My M4's also sound wonderful with my Decware Torii Jr. (20 wpc). For break in, I started to hear real changes at about 75 hours or so (particularly in the bass). When the wife goes shopping I'm able to to "pound" them (about 20 hours so far). The key is to go LOUD. Clayton uses all Pro sound spec drivers so as long as the amp doesn't clip (and the Red Dragon will not) your ears will give out long before the speakers do.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #24 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 03:36 am »

If you run these for 100 hours at 100db

, I hope you use hearing protection.

http://www.hearnet.com/at_risk/risk_aboutloss.shtml

Flyin_V · « **Reply #25 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 06:16 am »

An easy way to break them in is to copy test tones between 100hz and 20hz onto a CD and put your player on repeat. Play as loud as you can. You will see some real movement in the woofers, much more than playing music.

genjamon · « **Reply #26 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 10:55 am »

The old trick for breakin of speakers was to wire them out of phase, then make them face each other a foot or less away from each other. Then letter' rip. They will mostly cancel each others' output that way, so you won't hear them.

With open baffle this of course doesn't work as well. When I went through M1 breakin, I would lean 2'x4' GIK acoustic panels up against front and back in the morning before work, then crank the volume. 9-10 hrs a day of that while I was away for a couple weeks got me through the bulk of breakin process. Subtle changes after that.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #27 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 12:05 pm »

For me, I don't know about going thru all that new speaker breaking....
Are new speakers sounding that bad when they are new out of the box
or with just a few hours on them ?
Do they really sound that bad that you have to run them for up to 100 hours
so that after that they will sound good - better?
I wonder what is the difference in % between brand new and 100 hours on them.
I have a pair of Omega 7F (Open baffle dipole) and the difference in sound between out of the box and today
(Maybe more than 200 on them) is negligeable, yes, they do sound a little better today
than they did when I installed them,
but the difference is not big enought to say that they did not sound good
when they were new and if I had to say how much better they are today
than when they were new, maybe 5 to 10% max.
That's all I have to say, now back to normal scheduling.

Guy 13

zybar · « **Reply #28 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 01:53 pm »

Somebody more technical can chime in, but I think that the break-in period is needed (and very real) due to the stiffness of the pro drivers.

It isn't like the speaker is unlistenable after initial setup...but it definitely gets noticeably better after you get hours on them.

Guy 13,

Just because you have open baffle speakers that didn't require or improve noticeably with break-in doesn't mean it applies to all open baffle speakers.

George

Guy 13 · « **Reply #29 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 01:56 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 17 Jul 2016, 01:53 pm

Somebody more technical can chime in, but I think that the break-in period is needed (and very real) due to the stiffness of the pro drivers.

It isn't like the speaker is unlistenable after initial setup...but it definitely gets noticeably better after you get hours on them.

Guy 13,

Just because you have open baffle speakers that didn't require or improve noticeably with break-in doesn't mean it applies to all open baffle speakers.

George

Of course, I was only refeering to my set up.
While the cone or surround is getting more flexible,
I think (Most) of speakers - drivers are listenable.
That's my opinion with experience, not oly with Omega
but with other brands and models as well that I have owned.
But if you or any other AudioCircle think otherwise, I'm O.K. with that.

Guy 13

logdar · « **Reply #30 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 05:06 pm »

From Spatial Audio Website:

"Customer keeps the product for at least 45 days prior to returning to allow proper performance break-in time."

So, Spatial won't even take them back w/in 45 days because they don't feel they are properly broken-in. You can only return them between 45-60 days after receipt of the speakers. This tells me that there is likely a big difference in sound between a brand spanking new and 'broken-in' speaker.

I wonder if they provide any guidance on how to break them in - paperwork in the speaker packaging or something - I don't see anything on their website.

logdar · « **Reply #31 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 05:27 pm »

Quote from: CSI on 16 Jul 2016, 06:16 pm

I strongly agree that an optimum set up, if budget allows, is the LIO with MOSFET module. The Red Dragon S500 is a step up but it is not a necessity.

CSI, do you mean the S500 is a 'step up' (improvement?) in the LIO? Or when you say 'step up', you are comparing the S500 to an average SS amp? Sticking with SS amps, do you think you would even hear much/any difference at lower volume levels, say between a SDS-470C or an S500? The reason I ask is that I'm considering both (and they are vastly different in price - almost a factor of 3).

I read a post a while back where someone compared an inexpensive and expensive SS amp and said there was absolutely no difference until you got to very high volumes - where the inexpensive (low power) amp clipped and the expensive amp didn't.

Audiophile58 · « **Reply #32 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 05:59 pm »

I have a parasound 120 rebuilt with Tom quality parts, I am selling my Spatial M3 amp to
I have not got around to it yet with Top compression driver and custom premium Xover priced to sell but pick up only building Lowther. In New England.

zybar · « **Reply #33 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 06:19 pm »

Quote from: Audiophile58 on 17 Jul 2016, 05:59 pm

I have a parasound 120 rebuilt with Tom quality parts, I am selling my Spatial M3 amp to
I have not got around to it yet with Top compression driver and custom premium Xover priced to sell but pick up only building Lowther. In New England.

What are you selling?

George

Audiophile58 · « **Reply #34 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 06:35 pm »

I am selling my Custom Spatial aufio M3, and a Rebuilt 200 -wpc into 4 ohms I used with this speaker

All Premium parts sold as a package selling very very reasonable building my Lawthers no space with new reference small amp.

CSI · « **Reply #35 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 06:38 pm »

Quote from: logdar on 17 Jul 2016, 05:27 pm

CSI, do you mean the S500 is a 'step up' (improvement?) in the LIO? Or when you say 'step up', you are comparing the S500 to an average SS amp? Sticking with SS amps, do you think you would even hear much/any difference at lower volume levels, say between a SDS-470C or an S500? The reason I ask is that I'm considering both (and they are vastly different in price - almost a factor of 3).

I read a post a while back where someone compared an inexpensive and expensive SS amp and said there was absolutely no difference until you got to very high volumes - where the inexpensive (low power) amp clipped and the expensive amp didn't.

I meant that, in my system, the S500 is a SLIGHT improvement over the LIO. I couldn't possibly compare it with "average" SS amps, I can only compare it with the amps I own. As I posted, the Spatials sound terrific with the LIO/MOSFET. I ordered the Red Dragon out of curiosity and because it seemed to be Clayton's amp of choice for show demos. The differences, to my ears, are mostly in the bass where the S500 shows a bit more slam and control. But only a bit. If I hadn't gotten curious and ordered the Red Dragon I could, and would, live happily with the LIO driving the Spatials.

I agree with Guy 13 who implies that perhaps this whole break in thing is over-sold. If you buy Spatials, you will like them right out of the box. If you do nothing but just relax and listen to music on them you will enjoy them more as the hours go buy and they get even better. One hundred hours of listening (45 days?) will tell the tale but if you don't like them right out of the box (or at least after the first few hours of listening) you probably aren't going to suddenly like them after they are fully broken in.

The differences I am hearing are not volume related (neither of these amps will clip while driving the M4's - you would have to turn them up to and beyond your threshold of pain - even with the smaller, 45 watts into 4 ohms, LIO MOSFET). I've owned lots of ss amps and there are subtle but real differences in sound quality, even at low volume. I'm not arguing that the ones I like are "better" than the others. But I am saying that the ones I've kept over the years are the ones whose sonic "flavor" I find the most pleasing.

CSI · « **Reply #36 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 06:52 pm »

Quote from: logdar on 17 Jul 2016, 05:06 pm

From Spatial Audio Website:

"Customer keeps the product for at least 45 days prior to returning to allow proper performance break-in time."

So, Spatial won't even take them back w/in 45 days because they don't feel they are properly broken-in. You can only return them between 45-60 days after receipt of the speakers. This tells me that there is likely a big difference in sound between a brand spanking new and 'broken-in' speaker.

I wonder if they provide any guidance on how to break them in - paperwork in the speaker packaging or something - I don't see anything on their website.

When they ship the speakers Clayton sends an email with some tips on break-in (mostly just a sentence or two about playing them as loudly as possible when you can). I just crank them up and leave the room whenever my wife is out shopping. The main purpose of the break-in is to loosen up the surrounds so the cones ease into their natural (and more accurate) final shape. This is pretty common with the Pro-type cones he sources which is why musicians often prefer (guitar) amps that are well seasoned. He does not publish his User Manual which contains guide lines for proper set up. If you send me a PM I will send you a copy of mine. This goes for anyone else who reads this post and is sincerely interested in the Spatials.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #37 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 11:38 pm »

Quote from: CSI on 17 Jul 2016, 06:38 pm

I meant that, in my system, the S500 is a SLIGHT improvement over the LIO. I couldn't possibly compare it with "average" SS amps, I can only compare it with the amps I own. As I posted, the Spatials sound terrific with the LIO/MOSFET. I ordered the Red Dragon out of curiosity and because it seemed to be Clayton's amp of choice for show demos. The differences, to my ears, are mostly in the bass where the S500 shows a bit more slam and control. But only a bit. If I hadn't gotten curious and ordered the Red Dragon I could, and would, live happily with the LIO driving the Spatials.

I agree with Guy 13 who implies that perhaps this whole break in thing is over-sold. If you buy Spatials, you will like them right out of the box. If you do nothing but just relax and listen to music on them you will enjoy them more as the hours go buy and they get even better. One hundred hours of listening (45 days?) will tell the tale but if you don't like them right out of the box (or at least after the first few hours of listening) you probably aren't going to suddenly like them after they are fully broken in.

The differences I am hearing are not volume related (neither of these amps will clip while driving the M4's - you would have to turn them up to and beyond your threshold of pain - even with the smaller, 45 watts into 4 ohms, LIO MOSFET). I've owned lots of ss amps and there are subtle but real differences in sound quality, even at low volume. I'm not arguing that the ones I like are "better" than the others. But I am saying that the ones I've kept over the years are the ones whose sonic "flavor" I find the most pleasing.

'' I agree with Guy 13 who implies that perhaps this whole break in thing is over-sold. If you buy Spatials, you will like them right out of the box. If you do nothing but just relax and listen to music on them you will enjoy them more as the hours go buy and they get even better. One hundred hours of listening (45 days?) will tell the tale but if you don't like them right out of the box (or at least after the first few hours of listening) you probably aren't going to suddenly like them after they are fully broken in.
''

Thanks CSI.

Guy 13

glynnw · « **Reply #38 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 11:59 pm »

Vat a crazy game we play - one guy selling his M3s for some Lowthers while I am switching from my Lowthers to the M3. I guess it is simply a matter of personal preference - so much for the absolute sound.

CSI · « **Reply #39 on:** 18 Jul 2016, 12:38 am »

Quote from: Guy 13 on 17 Jul 2016, 11:38 pm

'' I agree with Guy 13 who implies that perhaps this whole break in thing is over-sold. If you buy Spatials, you will like them right out of the box. If you do nothing but just relax and listen to music on them you will enjoy them more as the hours go buy and they get even better. One hundred hours of listening (45 days?) will tell the tale but if you don't like them right out of the box (or at least after the first few hours of listening) you probably aren't going to suddenly like them after they are fully broken in.
''

Thanks CSI.

Guy 13

de rien mon ami