[werd]

Generally you are right, but I still can't understand why properly implemented BDA-2 USB input sounds bad for me - even with properly implemented BDP-2 USB output

What I do not like about USB is in the way the soundstage sags. It's like it looses air around the instruments. Where we had nice tight crisp low end it kind of sags. Well that is on the BDA2 compared to XLR or BNC.

[Marius]

HI James,

Please forgive me but i really don't understand

Am i correct in assuming in the BDP1 a 'regular' sound card is used for the Aes/ebu and Spdif's, and from that, a usb out is controlled, while in the BDP2 it is the other way round, basically a Usb machine, with the IAD card converting USB to Aes/Ebu and Spdif?
Thanks,
Marius

Hi Folks

Yes this is correct.

james

[werd]

Thanks, Krutsch. That looks pretty good. Will have to find some time to probe it. I have my Flac library in folders on my portable drive hooked to my desktop. I transfer folders manually to a pocket drive for connecting to BDP-1. Then MPad at listening chair. I hope Bliss can clean up folders on my hard drive (click to select, then specify parameters?). Will Bliss replace MPad as my control software for BDP? Or is it only for library management prior to uploading files to pocket drive and BDP?

Anyways, I won't get obsessive about album art, ....until another time when I can mess with Bliss.

cheers
Pete

That is exactly what I do. 

[CanadianMaestro]

What I do not like about USB is in the way the soundstage sags. It's like it looses air around the instruments. Where we had nice tight crisp low end it kind of sags. Well that is on the BDA2 compared to XLR or BNC.

USB doesn't give me the FULLNESS of sound that I enjoy with AES BNC or SPDIF.  Vocalists need to sound rounder, more "fleshed-out" 3D. I don't get that with USB. The term for this I think, is "Action" -- how an instrument (violin or piano) seems to expand and contract in its sound,  like a an ocean wave receding or expanding in height and sound, with distance.  I can close my eyes and the instrument's sound evokes a 3D image in my mind, including its distance relative to ther instruments/performers. I get all that with AES and BNC, but much less so with USB.

[James Tanner]

HI James,

Please forgive me but i really don't understand

Am i correct in assuming in the BDP1 a 'regular' sound card is used for the Aes/ebu and Spdif's, and from that, a usb out is controlled, while in the BDP2 it is the other way round, basically a Usb machine, with the IAD card converting USB to Aes/Ebu and Spdif?
Thanks,
Marius

Hi Marius

In the BDP1, the internal (PCI) sound card generates the SPDIF and AES outputs, there is no USB involved.
In the BDP2, the IAD generates SPDIF and AES from the internal USB bus.

[Krutsch]

What I do not like about USB is in the way the soundstage sags. It's like it looses air around the instruments. Where we had nice tight crisp low end it kind of sags. Well that is on the BDA2 compared to XLR or BNC.

That's a good way to characterize it, for me, as well.

I bought a Bel Canto REFLink USB-to-S/PDIF converter so I could enjoy BDP-level sound from my MacBook using apps there, like the native Tidal app (I've been watching/listening to videos from Tidal with their native app - very cool).

I was settled that the sound was very similar to my BDP-1 w/ BNC S/PDIF out. But then I changed to an AES cable for the BDP-to-DAC connection and it's no longer a contest - the BDP betters my MacBook in the manner you describe. It's subtle, but the difference is there.

I should probably flip things around and use the AES cable from the REFLink into the DAC and see if the ranking changes, but that cable is a tight fit (AudioQuest Carbon) into the DAC and I don't want to start flipping cables while I am listening (my DAC only has a single AES input).

[werd]

USB doesn't give me the FULLNESS of sound that I enjoy with AES BNC or SPDIF.  Vocalists need to sound rounder, more "fleshed-out" 3D. I don't get that with USB. The term for this I think, is "Action" -- how an instrument (violin or piano) seems to expand and contract in its sound,  like a an ocean wave receding or expanding in height and sound, with distance.  I can close my eyes and the instrument's sound evokes a 3D image in my mind, including its distance relative to ther instruments/performers. I get all that with AES and BNC, but much less so with USB.

That sounds like layering and the BDA has that in spades. What so important with instruments that layer are the leading and trailing edges. This is where all the beats are in the fillers. Filler instruments layer really good if you have a good dac. And the beats are accented with leading and trailing edges in the notes. They breath in and out while the leading edges tell you were the air is. It is so important actually and USB is kind of a step back IMO on the BDP1. The BDP2 might be a diff animal but I always seem to not be interested in USB.

[werd]

That's a good way to characterize it, for me, as well.

I bought a Bel Canto REFLink USB-to-S/PDIF converter so I could enjoy BDP-level sound from my MacBook using apps there, like the native Tidal app (I've been watching/listening to videos from Tidal with their native app - very cool).

I was settled that the sound was very similar to my BDP-1 w/ BNC S/PDIF out. But then I changed to an AES cable for the BDP-to-DAC connection and it's no longer a contest - the BDP betters my MacBook in the manner you describe. It's subtle, but the difference is there.

I should probably flip things around and use the AES cable from the REFLink into the DAC and see if the ranking changes, but that cable is a tight fit (AudioQuest Carbon) into the DAC and I don't want to start flipping cables while I am listening (my DAC only has a single AES input).

What Dac are you using with a single XLR in? Sometimes you get to win and things are made easy. This is how I feel about USB. I am not sure how I could use my iPad with a laptop?  This MPAD app is what makes listening so much better than a comp, cd drive, or laptop. I think I would give up and throw in the towel if I had to use a comp.

[Krutsch]

What Dac are you using with a single XLR in? Sometimes you get to win and things are made easy. This is how I feel about USB. I am not sure how I could use my iPad with a laptop?  This MPAD app is what makes listening so much better than a comp, cd drive, or laptop. I think I would give up and throw in the towel if I had to use a comp.

Bel Canto DAC 2.5.

I've given thought to a BDA-3, as I would love to leverage the HDMI input w/ native DSD decoding from my Pioneer Blu-ray player. I have a large collection of SACDs. But for now, I am loving the sound of the Bel Canto.

[Tympani]

It seems everyone is assuming the sonic compromises with USB are derived from the electronics. Please consider the cable.

When I got my BDA-3, I tried 3 different USB cables between  the BDP-2 (with IAD card) and DAC. For PCM Hi-Rez, I also compared the USB cables to my AES cable, a Hi-Diamond Big cable. Without any doubt, there were significant differences between the different USB cables. Two USB cables, the Wireworld Platinum Silver and WyWires Silver, had wonderful space and air, with the prize going to Wireworld Platinum for top to bottom punch and smoothness at the same time. A Shunyata Venom USB had less detail, much less "air" and the music was less engaging. I'm now using it on my computer-based system with an iFi DAC.

It's so easy to compare cables with a service like The Cable Company. I would urge anyone trying to get the best from these components to try before you buy. I might have ended up with a different selection if I had continued the search. But on my Bryston gear, I settled on the Wireworld Platinum, and of course kept my Hi-Diamond AES. I still prefer PCM/Hi-Rez thru the AES (by a hair), but without a remote control to change inputs for my BDA-3, when I'm cycling through my full library including DSD and PCM files, and feeling too lazy to get up and switch inputs, I just keep it on the USB input with negligible compromise.