Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?

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sunnydaze

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #20 on: 2 Jun 2016, 01:18 pm »

 .......... No I've never found much if any help from tweaks, even between properly designed cables. What are all those reviewers drinking?


The best wine / bourbon / scotch etc the payola can buy!!      :rotflmao:

JonnyFive

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Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #21 on: 2 Jun 2016, 01:23 pm »
I had one more thought.  It's been mentioned that OP may not like the RAAL, but it could be equally likely he doesn't like the Accuton.  I think for me, it was both of them.  I think any definicies upstream are brought to the front by the Accuton in the all-important midrange.  I've read some describe the Accuton as having (or at least not masking) any "glare" apparent in the recording or system.  I'd say that was true for me, and I'll never go with a hard midrange again.

TJHUB

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #22 on: 2 Jun 2016, 01:57 pm »
I have never found the Salk SS8's bright or harsh in any way.  The problem is likely just a synergy issue with the electronics, source, and cables.  Room/setup could be an issue, but the OP is not complaining of any smearing, or lack of or bloated bass.  I dont think thats it.

It's been asked several times now for the OP to list the rest of they system.  I'd also like to know what kind of music, and what average volume? 

deep

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Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #23 on: 2 Jun 2016, 09:23 pm »
Wow, so many replies! I’ll start replying to them, but this may take a bit.

Kingdeezie suggested some possible issues: room Acoustics, power supply issues and cables. The cables are Kimber 8TC’s with some aquarium tubing inserted to help minimize electrical connections. As much as possible I have kept all stereo related connectors to cross at right angles.

On the room acoustics, I already had some modest treatments. I put a blanket over both sides of the 55’ TV with little difference in sound. When I tried the Dyns (without the blanket treatment) the hardness went away. Based on that result, I don’t think the room was an issue. BTW, this is with playback around 75db.

On the possibility it’s an electrical source issue, I have a dedicated circuit the stereo system is plugged into. All other components are plugged into another circuit. This includes the dac. Over time I have noticed some changes over the course of the day, but this has been inconsistent and doesn’t seem to have an effect on the hardness I’m hearing.

I also use a PS Audio Humbuster

Avahifi wanted to know the preamp I’m using. Its a Primaluna Dialogue Premium.

Undertow suggests reworking the xover, upgrading the amp. I am unwilling to experiment on the xover. Cost of upgrading the amp would cost me at least $2k more and I’m unwilling to spend that much without a clear picture of what the change would be. 

Richidoo suggested rolling off the tweeter at about 1k hz and increasing to about -6db at 20hz. This sounds a bit strong. I’ll see about giving it a try. I expect it will take me a bit to set up and listen.

Per Jim’s comments to me in an email, I made the changes starting at 300 hz to approximate what a resister change would sound like.

JonnyFive comments a different speaker would likely be the best solution and points to his experience with the Exotica’s.

Early B. Suggests it’s a placement issue. I put the Dynaudio’s in the same place as the Salk’s. Its based on that experience, along with my experiment with the blanket over the TV that I am starting to think it’s the basic sound characteristics of the Salk’s and not the room or other issue.

Folsom opines its dirty power. I don’t have a place to put a power conditioner, so that’s out.

Carl V

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Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #24 on: 2 Jun 2016, 09:32 pm »
Best of luck.
When you initially purchased the SS8
were you able to listen to it in Auditions?
were you ever able to compare & contrast
the 'sound ' of an accuton driver VS another type?

I have accuton drivers & Scanspeak Slit Cone & Seas Magnesium.
I like them yet they do have differing tone.
It's not simply a question of better but what you prefer.
Not unlike guitar strings/styles or Piano brands.


audioguy213

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Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #25 on: 2 Jun 2016, 09:44 pm »
Wow, so many replies! I’ll start replying to them, but this may take a bit.

Kingdeezie suggested some possible issues: room Acoustics, power supply issues and cables. The cables are Kimber 8TC’s with some aquarium tubing inserted to help minimize electrical connections. As much as possible I have kept all stereo related connectors to cross at right angles.

On the room acoustics, I already had some modest treatments. I put a blanket over both sides of the 55’ TV with little difference in sound. When I tried the Dyns (without the blanket treatment) the hardness went away. Based on that result, I don’t think the room was an issue. BTW, this is with playback around 75db.

On the possibility it’s an electrical source issue, I have a dedicated circuit the stereo system is plugged into. All other components are plugged into another circuit. This includes the dac. Over time I have noticed some changes over the course of the day, but this has been inconsistent and doesn’t seem to have an effect on the hardness I’m hearing.

I also use a PS Audio Humbuster

Avahifi wanted to know the preamp I’m using. Its a Primaluna Dialogue Premium.

Undertow suggests reworking the xover, upgrading the amp. I am unwilling to experiment on the xover. Cost of upgrading the amp would cost me at least $2k more and I’m unwilling to spend that much without a clear picture of what the change would be. 

Richidoo suggested rolling off the tweeter at about 1k hz and increasing to about -6db at 20hz. This sounds a bit strong. I’ll see about giving it a try. I expect it will take me a bit to set up and listen.

Per Jim’s comments to me in an email, I made the changes starting at 300 hz to approximate what a resister change would sound like.

JonnyFive comments a different speaker would likely be the best solution and points to his experience with the Exotica’s.

Early B. Suggests it’s a placement issue. I put the Dynaudio’s in the same place as the Salk’s. Its based on that experience, along with my experiment with the blanket over the TV that I am starting to think it’s the basic sound characteristics of the Salk’s and not the room or other issue.

Folsom opines its dirty power. I don’t have a place to put a power conditioner, so that’s out.

woh.

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
Yes, the are the wrong speaker for you.

All of the answers are skewed towards "informing a newbie" since your first post was not so replete with information.
I think your folllow up here makes it quite clear you dont need any of these simple tips.
The Salks are not for you -
soft dome mids and tweeters, or maybe beryllium

deep

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Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #26 on: 2 Jun 2016, 09:59 pm »
JLM suggest talking more with Jim. I will do that. He further opines (along with some others) it may simply be a case of having speakers that are too revealing for my taste/hearing. This is what concerns me and what motivated me to post.

He opined my power amp is mediocre. I was unaware the Parasound A21 was considered to be mediocre. When I replaced the Wyred4Sound ST500 with the Parasound I noticed an immediate improvement, but the system still sounded hard.

He has experience with Primaluna gear, which he didn’t find satisfying compared to his solid state stuff. My experience with Primaluna is different, but I’ve seen at least one person made a similar comment on another board.

I think I’ve addressed most of the power related questions raised, but ALM asks about the surrounding area. Do I live in an industrial area? I live in a suburban area of single family dwellings in a relatively upscale area in Southern California. The tract was built in the late 70’s. My home was built in 1979.

TJHUB

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #27 on: 2 Jun 2016, 10:04 pm »
deep:

What DAC, USB cable, and interconnects do you use?


Gzerro

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #28 on: 2 Jun 2016, 10:17 pm »
Before giving up, I would suggest experimenting more with placement. Every speaker is different so you can't assume what worked for your Dynaudio's is optimal for every speaker. In particular I would try no toe-in at all, extreme toe-in crossing in front of the listening position, or even toeing them out a bit.

also, make sure to experiment with opening up the back and using different amounts of fill - that may soften things a little.

Speaking with Jim Salk is a great idea as already mentioned. He always will make time for his customers and he would be the best person to provide an opinion.

In the end, the SS8s are a very detailed speaker and the Accuton/Raal combination may not be your cup of tea. Nothing wrong with that.

Good luck.

Tom

Early B.

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #29 on: 2 Jun 2016, 10:25 pm »

Early B. Suggests it’s a placement issue. I put the Dynaudio’s in the same place as the Salk’s. Its based on that experience, along with my experiment with the blanket over the TV that I am starting to think it’s the basic sound characteristics of the Salk’s and not the room or other issue.

Every speaker responds to the room differently, and this necessitates optimizing placement. Movement of an inch or two can make a huge difference. Seems like you've your mind made up, though. 

Photon46

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #30 on: 2 Jun 2016, 10:42 pm »
Wow, so many replies! I’ll start replying to them, but this may take a bit.
Folsom opines its dirty power. I don’t have a place to put a power conditioner, so that’s out.

I've got no opinion as to whether or not dirty power is the culprit, but don't use lack of space as a reason to rule out a conditioner. You can't imagine how good these large wall wart Audience conditioners are considering their compact size. I've found this series (whether having teflon capacitors or not) to have one of the highest price-performance ratios of anything I've run across in my forty years of audio obsession.


deep

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Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #31 on: 2 Jun 2016, 10:44 pm »
Rocket asks about my complete system:

Preamp: PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium Preamplifier
Amp: Parasound A21
Source: Dedicated computer running Windows 7 and Jriver.
DAC: Wyred4Sound
Power cord: Pangea
Preamp and DAC power cord: Pangea
Cables: Kimber 8tc
Interconnects: Kimber Hero
Other: PS Audio Humbuster
Electrical: Dedicated electrical line. 

The TV etc are on a separate circuit.

Rocket also asks about recordings. Even audiophile recordings have a hard sound. I primalily play most anything acoustic (classical, some jazz, folk, celtic) plus 60’s and 70’s rock. All CD’s were copied using either lossless AIFF or sometimes APE.


Stercom suggests the speakers may not be broken in. They have been played almost daily between 4 and 10 hours daily for over a year.

charmerci

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #32 on: 2 Jun 2016, 10:48 pm »
I think a lot of it is a combination of your high frequency sensitivity and coming from Dynaudio speakers.

TJHUB

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #33 on: 2 Jun 2016, 11:24 pm »
I'm not seeing anything glaring as a problem in your gear list.  You don't list the USB cable though. 

Is the sound thin, as in lacking bass, or just bright and harsh?

Jriver on an unoptomized computer is thin and bright to me.  I also wonder about the Wyred DAC.  But all said, maybe just move on from the Salk's.

Rocket_Ronny

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Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #34 on: 2 Jun 2016, 11:46 pm »
A digital e.q. will work wonders and would save a lot of people a lot of money. There is also that software from Europe, forgot the name maybe someone can chime in, that will not only e.q. your system but also do time alignment to a certain degree. Before selling the speakers I would use that software. It's around $300.00 or so.

Rocket Ronny

Kishore

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #35 on: 2 Jun 2016, 11:59 pm »

While there is some labor of love which needs to be involved (placement/measurement and calibration), I will state that OP's gear is good enough for the speaker. Questioning him or his equipment or down to cable is  :nono:  :duh: Maybe one should ask for ear measurements as well? Not all have same taste and same speaker does not work for everyone.

I personally know of folks who are sensitive to different sonics.. some hated ribbons or horns and did not like what they heard in my room/dealer room and I was wondering  :scratch:  :lol:. It is indeed a personal preference - so trust your ears.

Folsom

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #36 on: 3 Jun 2016, 12:30 am »
Humbuster isn't a power conditioner BTW.

Early B.

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #37 on: 3 Jun 2016, 12:31 am »
While there is some labor of love which needs to be involved (placement/measurement and calibration), I will state that OP's gear is good enough for the speaker. Questioning him or his equipment or down to cable is  :nono:  :duh:

With high caliber speakers, you need corresponding gear for them. It's like putting $40 tires on a Ferrari and complaining about the handling. A well designed, high end speaker will magnify the system's weaknesses. So questions about associated gear are warranted. IMO, these speakers are far superior to the gear that feeds it, so the OP will never hear what those SS8's really sound like. In this case, downgrading the speakers may be a positive move.

DMurphy

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Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #38 on: 3 Jun 2016, 12:48 am »
I don't think it's the equipment.  The SS8's should sound good on a wide variety of electronics.  I like to think that they are revealing, but that shouldn't lead to the irritation the OP is experiencing, because both the RAAL and ACCUTON are exceptionally smooth reproducers.     Just one more question--do both speakers sound alike to you?  Have you compared them to make sure there's not something off in one of the units? 

sts9fan

Re: Are SS8’s the wrong speaker for me?
« Reply #39 on: 3 Jun 2016, 02:57 am »
I love when someone has speaker issues and people suggest multi thousand dollar boxes full of capacitors for AC.