Is Salk Streamer My Next Step?

kingdeezie · « **on:** 30 May 2016, 10:07 pm »

Hello everyone,

I have pretty much given up on PC audio. I love the convenience, but right now, I can't get Jriver and my Lampizator DAC to really make great music.

The sound is almost grayish, with no propulsion or engagement. I'm not toe tapping, or enjoying the tunes.

The PC is a gaming rig that I built myself. I know this isn't optimal for audio playback since there is a lot more noise on the line from the extra fans, video card, etc, etc. I have tried the Uptone Audio Regen, and while that made things better, it didn't alleviate all the issues.

I have been thinking about perhaps buying a SPDIF converter. I have been eyeing the the Mutec 3+USB, since it reclocks as well. But, I don't really feel like throwing money down the drain, while still being unsatisfied. There isn't much in the way for demoing of these converters.

Does anyone have any experience with the Salk Streamer in comparison to a PC with all these different gadgets? How about the Aurender or Lumin?

Does the Salk just sound better against a PC, or do people love it more for ease of use?

I love my Exotica 3s, and would love another excuse to give the Salk family more business, but I wanted some opinions from anyone with experience.

Tired of throwing money at a problem I can't seem to fix.

Thanks in advance!

zybar · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 May 2016, 10:24 pm »

Hope Jim doesn't mind me suggesting another alternative...

You can keep you computer and add a Sonore microRendu.

Many of us on Audio Circle and Computer Audiophile have gone this route with outstanding results.

Sonore has a circle here at AC.

George

MttBsh · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 May 2016, 10:52 pm »

[You can keep you computer and add a Sonore microRendu.
George
[/quote]

George - or anyone - I currently use a Mac Mini playing music from an attached external drive using J River. Does the Micro Rendu get inserted between the Mac Mini and my DAC, or does it take the place of my Mac Mini? Thanks

Ern Dog · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 May 2016, 10:53 pm »

I used to have a computer audio rig consisting of: MacBook pro, Amarra, Empirical Audio Off ramp 4, and Overdrive dac. I thought it sounded too analytical and had a digital edge to it. Plus I got sick and tired of all the little problems that go along with it (freezes, drop outs, updates, etc). For me, the Salk streamer sounded better, minus all the hassles, and way more fun to use. Plus Jim's customer service is one of the best in this industry. I don't have any experience with Lumin or Aurender, so can't comment on that.

toddc2 · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 May 2016, 11:01 pm »

Quote from: Ern Dog on 30 May 2016, 10:53 pm

I used to have a computer audio rig consisting of: MacBook pro, Amarra, Empirical Audio Off ramp 4, and Overdrive dac. I thought it sounded too analytical and had a digital edge to it. Plus I got sick and tired of all the little problems that go along with it (freezes, drop outs, updates, etc). For me, the Salk streamer sounded better, minus all the hassles, and way more fun to use. Plus Jim's customer service is one of the best in this industry. I don't have any experience with Lumin or Aurender, so can't comment on that.

I had a similar setup. Let's not forget the M2Tech OSX driver issues. And the Amarra crashes. And the connection glitches. Oh my, no wonder I gave up and listen to mostly vinyl these days.

I am hoping a good Roon solution gets me back into digital. I think Jim is onto something with the SalkStreamer.

Todd

TomS · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 May 2016, 11:02 pm »

Quote from: MttBsh on 30 May 2016, 10:52 pm

[You can keep you computer and add a Sonore microRendu.
George

George - or anyone - I currently use a Mac Mini playing music from an attached external drive using J River. Does the Micro Rendu get inserted between the Mac Mini and my DAC, or does it take the place of my Mac Mini? Thanks

It is inserted between the Mini and the DAC, USB only.

toddc2 · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 May 2016, 11:06 pm »

Quote from: MttBsh on 30 May 2016, 10:52 pm

[You can keep you computer and add a Sonore microRendu.
George

George - or anyone - I currently use a Mac Mini playing music from an attached external drive using J River. Does the Micro Rendu get inserted between the Mac Mini and my DAC, or does it take the place of my Mac Mini? Thanks

The microRendu is an Ethernet renderer so you still need a server (in this case your Mini). The nice thing about this architecture is you can get the computer out of the listening room. Lots of info available in the Sonore AC, or ComputerAudiophile.

Todd

Jonathon Janusz · « **Reply #7 on:** 31 May 2016, 12:53 am »

I've been thinking about a question that some here might be able to answer, having been able to compare multiple digital setups. For the record, I'm still running oxford chipset FW 7200rpm hard drive - 6" firewire cable - tiger-era itunes - core2 duo mac mini - DB Audio Labs USB cable - tranquility SE DAC for my front end. I do also have a gen2 Salk Streamer sitting in a box waiting for me to buy a router before I can use.

Last I was shopping around for digital front ends, there was a lot to be said about the little things regarding how the music file data got to the "renderer" (current term) - USB vs. Firewire vs. optical, make/model of the cabling, speed and brand of the connected hard drive, even the chipset of the controller on an external hard drive enclosure were discussed as having an effect on the sound. Put more shortly, as is often the case in audio, 'everything matters'.

What I wonder about when folks bring up products like the microRendu is the part about it being an ethernet streamer. Comparing to the capability of something like the Salk Streamer, pulling music data from a local drive on in that case an internal data bus, does something like the microRendu lose something in the sound pulling its data through the TCP/IP stack over the network (even if that network is only the renderer and a NAS, as a hypothetical absolute minimal example)? It was explained to me a long time ago that things like harmonics and overtones were some of the most delicate parts of the music to preserve in a digital signal chain, and these very "analog sounding" properties were the first to go if the data path as a whole wasn't carefully optimized, leading to the often negative bias between even higher quality digital and analog.

So, put another way, to those who have tried a few different digital setups, purely from a sound quality standpoint, has anyone noticed a difference - good or bad - streaming music data from a network source (even if buffered locally at the end before rendering) compared to pulling that same music data from a local storage source optimized for sound quality?

I assume for sake of the discussion that there really isn't much way to optimize how data would be streamed to a renderer over a network as once the music data hits the network it is treated like any other piece of data getting passed around. Although, now that I think about it, it might be interesting to see if prioritizing traffic from a music source via QoS on a router (or commercial-grade switch) would change or improve the sound from network fed renderers? How about configuring the NAS, music server, and renderer on a dedicated VLAN versus just running everything on a single logical network? Maybe a silly question, but do different network cables sound the same?

King, please pardon the minor technical aside involving network configuration; all of the above is really getting into the far tweaking end of the pool, as the products you've asked about have by far and away improved on being more 'just plug it in and go' type of equipment compared to those early on who cut the early (earlier than me for sure) trail in digital front ends. Actually, one of the main reasons I want to try out the Salk Streamer is the same as you - find an alternative to running my music from a multi-purpose computer.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #8 on:** 31 May 2016, 04:57 pm »

Thanks for the input so far, was really looking for specific information about the differences between trying to get a multi-purpose PC to sound good, versus something purpose built like the Salk Streamer.

If anyone has any input, that would be greatly appreciated.

I am sure the sound that I am experiencing has some to do with the power coming from the PC. I know all of the crap I have in the case, can't be best for sound quality. I just don't know if its more sensible to continue to try and improve on the PC sound, or just throw that idea out, so I don't keep wasting money.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 May 2016, 05:18 pm »

Yeah, you need someone who has gone from a PC to the streamer to pipe in. I know I like my HAL MS-2 very much. While it is a PC all I do with it is surf while listening so it is pretty much stripped down for mostly audio purposes. With the streamer, it is only an audio device. They certainly sound nice and are easy to use. And good looking. Like me.

charmerci · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 May 2016, 06:47 pm »

Maybe you could try this for $180 first?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142925.0

sfox7076 · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 May 2016, 09:23 pm »

Won't that make it impossible to use DSD?

So I have Exotica's and a Lampizator GoldenGate. I would never describe my sound as gray. I have used a MacMini for playback mostly and have gone through 3-4 software iternations. It's all relatively good sounding, but I found that the JRiver solution left me wanting more. I tried HQPlayer, but found its interface impossible. Enter Roon + HQPlayer. Sound is amazing. I am limited to 128DSD for now, but don't really care. I plan to try this with a dedicated server in another room and an NAA in my listening area. Likely to use a Windows 10 NAA so I can run ASIO drivers for my DAC.

What are you using for a USB cable? I thought they didn't matter. Sadly, I was wrong. I listened to many different cables and all sound a bit different. I cannot understand it, but according to the gang at Lampi, USB cables really matter with the Lampizator DSD engine because of their chipless DSD and R2R engines...

Shawn

kingdeezie · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Jun 2016, 12:00 am »

Shawn,

I don't use the DSD engine. Its a PITA to have to switch back and forth when I use the DAC for so many other things.

There is something wrong with the USB PC output and the DAC. Even a cheap CD player and PS4 via Spotify sound better.

There is something coming through the PC that is killing the music. The vocals are fuzzy and unclear, and the highs are brutal, not in a painful way, but in a washed out way. It doesn't cause fatigue, it just sounds bad.

vtvu · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Jun 2016, 02:23 am »

I can personally vouch for the Salk Stream Player. I was using a PC with JRiver and Lampizator and got tired of playing around with the many settings of JRiver to make it sound right. Way too fussy for me. I found that temporarily disabling the Anti-Virus actually helped it the most.
Then I bought Jim's StreamPlayer and have been happy with it playing both PCM and DSD.
Vinh Vu

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Jun 2016, 02:31 am »

Quote from: vtvu on 1 Jun 2016, 02:23 am

I can personally vouch for the Salk Stream Player. I was using a PC with JRiver and Lampizator and got tired of playing around with the many settings of JRiver to make it sound right. Way too fussy for me. I found that temporarily disabling the Anti-Virus actually helped it the most.
Then I bought Jim's StreamPlayer and have been happy with it playing both PCM and DSD.
Vinh Vu

Vinh, what is the software you use to play music then, if not JRiver?

vtvu · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Jun 2016, 02:35 am »

Before JRiver I just used Itunes.
But that was at least three years ago.
We also used JRiver at shows for a while but now I bring the StreamPlayer.
Vinh

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Jun 2016, 12:15 pm »

So you are using the Streamers MPAD app to play tunes? I much prefer JRiver interface than the MPAD interface. MPAD is a little clunky to me. I wonder how JRiver would sound on the Streamer...

jtwrace · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Jun 2016, 12:21 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 1 Jun 2016, 12:15 pm

So you are using the Streamers MPAD app to play tunes? I much prefer JRiver interface than the MPAD interface. MPAD is a little clunky to me. I wonder how JRiver would sound on the Streamer...

I'm surprised you're not a Roon user. If the SalkStream can do DLNA then you could still use JRiver. I'm able to have JRiver on my Mac while my µRendu is in DLNA mode and I'm using my iPad Pro as the remote. I use Roon though but I did test that DLNA works.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Jun 2016, 12:58 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 1 Jun 2016, 12:21 pm

I'm surprised you're not a Roon user.

I'm old school selfish - I want to own it, rip it, control my destiny. So I have never understood the attraction for the music streaming services. Eventually I'll come around.

I'm actually very much attached to the user interface of JRiver and how easy it is to find my collections, build playlists on the fly, and sort music. Now if it is not up to snuff as far as sound goes then that will give me cramps.

Good to hear about the JRiver possibility. I want to own a Streamer, but need JRiver and don't have the spare cash with the kitchen remodel and upcoming college tuition costs.

jtwrace · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Jun 2016, 01:02 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 1 Jun 2016, 12:58 pm

I'm old school selfish - I want to own it, rip it, control my destiny. So I have never understood the attraction for the music streaming services. Eventually I'll come around.

I'm actually very much attached to the user interface of JRiver and how easy it is to find my collections, build playlists on the fly, and sort music. Now if it is not up to snuff as far as sound goes then that will give me cramps.

Good to hear about the JRiver possibility. I want to own a Streamer, but need JRiver and don't have the spare cash with the kitchen remodel and upcoming college tuition costs.

10 minutes with Roon and you will be hooked. It's incredible IMO. Forget the flashy GUI and the credits and all of that stuff. The discovery of new music is what I love it for. The other stuff is just an added bonus to me. However, I do use the credits more and more if I'm interested to know what other albums the bass player has played on. It's really cool. I just hope Roon is around long term. That said though, if Jim can confirm if his streamer can use DLNA then you can still use JRiver and you will be at home until you go to Roon. I'm sure he would send you one to play around with and it will not go back. The microRendu can do all of this so I'm sure his can too.