[JLM]

This past summer I picked up a pair of single driver speakers.

(Bob Brines designed/built $1500 floorstanding mass loaded transmission line cabinets using Fostex F200A drivers, 25-20,000 Hz, 90 dB/w/m, 8 ohms.)

I've tried a $1500 12 wpc Decware integrated tube amp, a 100 wpc JVC RX-ES1SL digital/hybrid receiver, and my old 100 wpc solid state Rotel receiver.  Best results were with the Decware, worst was the Rotel.  Surprisely to me the Decware got plenty loud and provided the most solid bass.

I've read here and there that chip amps do very well with these types of speakers and would like to try one.  Has anyone been able to compare IRD, Scott Nixon, C I Audio, or Audio Zone?  Currently the Scott Nixon and C I Audio intrigues me the most as the Audio Zone is more expensive and the IRD uses older technology.

thanks

[guest1632]

This past summer I picked up a pair of single driver speakers.

(Bob Brines designed/built $1500 floorstanding mass loaded transmission line cabinets using Fostex F200A drivers, 25-20,000 Hz, 90 dB/w/m, 8 ohms.)

I've tried a $1500 12 wpc Decware integrated tube amp, a 100 wpc JVC RX-ES1SL digital/hybrid receiver, and my old 100 wpc solid state Rotel receiver.  Best results were with the Decware, worst was the Rotel.  Surprisely to me the Decware got plenty loud and provided the most solid bass.

I've ...

[Bemopti123]

I have compared the 47 Labs Shigaraki (little brother of the Gaincard 25 watter) with the Final Laboratories Music 6 (entirely battery powered, with just about 10 watts per channel but measured at around 17 watts in clipping.)  I had paired the 47 Labs with two pairs of speakers, a rear horn loaded Fostex 208 Sigma driver (at around 97 db sensitivity) as well with a pair of Epos 11 (89 db, flat, that supposedly needed a good 35 watts to get going.)  The results:  the 47 Labs drove both of them succesfully, but with the EPOS, it needed to be cranked a little bit more because it was not as sensitive....But the sound, was fast, dynamic, accurate and incredibly rhythmic.  I did not try the Final Music 6 on the EPOS, because of concerns with lowish wattage.  With the horn, the Shigaraki was also very good, dynamic, but not as full sounding as the EPOS, because of an inherent difference in design.  

The best combo was the Final Music 6 with the horn designs because of its lack of grain, all due to the battery factor.  The sound was quick, fast and absolutely grainless.  

I still have the Final Music 6 and the horns.  I have sold the Shigaraki.

If I were you, I would try to pick up a Gaincard, for around 1.5K used.  Eventhough there are cheaper versions of the chipamps out there, there are two to really beat:

The 25 watt Gaincard

and

the Final Music 6, which is simply a contender in any league, against almost any amp, as long as the speaker match if sympathetic.

[JLM]

The Final Music stuff looks too expensive for this poor boy and perhaps underpowered.

Underdamped amps (tubes) work great for compression (horn) loading, and the Torii sounded very good, but again the worble test showed it to be unstable.

A quick run through A'gon indicates soft pricing on the Audio Zone AMP-1.  Wonder why?  6-moons loved it better than the Gaincard.  I'm just not sure that I want to be locked into a single input.  (I know that they have some sort of goofy switching box that attaches on the back to allow for up to three inputs, but it goes so against the rest of the design!)

[gonefishin]

HAve you looked into DIY'ing one of these little amps?  You can then use a/c power or battery power.  Diy'ing also let's you do a little voicing too.

   http://gainclone.com/phpBB2/index.php

   http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=40

  http://www.sound.westhost.com/madashell8.htm#gaincard


    take care,

  dan

[Bemopti123]

The way I remember it, in the case of the Audioamp 1, which had glowing reviews from 6moons in contrast to other 47 Lab Gear was because the reviewer at hand was comparing both of the items and the price points.  According to my memory, the Audioamp 1 had a "better fit and finish" as well as being higher powered, and to top it all off, it had a more competitive pricing than the gaincard.  The Gaincard can be had for about $3300 MSRP, but used, it fetches about 1.5K, sporadically seen in Audiogon.  The Audioamp 1, was less than 2 K MSRP, I doubt you can get any discount for it, because it had about 2-3 dealers.  The finish statement, I simply had to disagree with the reviewer, the Titanium/silver plug the gold knobs make the whole thing look Eons Gaudier<?  than the understated 47 Labs gear.  I even have the switchbox for the Gaincard, which I never bought, but was planning to use it with my already gone Shigaraki integrated....I was a little too concerned into hooking up as much sources as possible 1 year ago, but, now I realize it was not a good idea.  

        The 47 Labs gear fit and finish and design philosophy is 180 degrees different, and personally much better than the Audio Amp 1 design.  You need to see the finish of the switchbox I have, it is a polished, aluminum brick, in anonized black, beautiful.  The gaincard will have the same touch, as it matches the switchbox physically.


        Furthermore, although there are tons of DIY people are clonning the Gaincard, there is something that these people overlooked....For example that the designer actually polished the resistors or capacitors several times before soldering in place, something that seems rather anal, or strange, but guess what, every little detail counts in the end.  

        I have seen a Audio Amp 1 for about $800 used in Audiogon and also the 1.5K gaincard.  If I was to plunge some money in something, it would be in the used Card rather than the knock offs.


        I would not disagree with some people out there that state that these sort of amps seem to be a rip off, in the matter of part costs, but guess what, someone had to do it first and if they made an awesome piece, which is universaly commented upon, then, should not they be allowed to make some money in their glory?  It is my take on the whole thing.  A Gaincard is a Gaincard, and a clone, is just that, a clone.  


        Member JohnK in Audiogon, has had both the Gaincard and also the Final Music 6 and he said that the Final Music 6 is a better amplifier....according to him, he said that it drove the F200As succesfully, unless you have a large room.  I believe him.

[guest1632]

The way I remember it, in the case of the Audioamp 1, which had glowing reviews from 6moons in contrast to other 47 Lab Gear was because the reviewer at hand was comparing both of the items and the price points.  According to my memory, the Audioamp 1 had a "better fit and finish" as well as being higher powered, and to top it all off, it had a more competitive pricing than the gaincard.  The Gaincard can be had for about $3300 MSRP, but used, it fetches about 1.5K, sporadically seen in Audiogon.  The Audio ...

[JLM]

Dan,

I'm a electronics klutz, it's been over 20 years since assembling my Hafler pre-amp (with lots of help) and power amp (mostly on my own).  I'd go with a Scott Nixon assembled amp first (if he'll return my e-mail).


Bemo,

Final Music 6 is out of my price range, but seems intriging.


Bemo/Ray,

The AMP-1 had 31 step volume controls versus the Gaincard's 12 step controls, nicer/heavier construction, more power, and lower price in the 6-moons review.  

As a consumer I'm glad to see street pricing of new/used chip amps more in line with content value, but wonder why this is the case to such a degree.  Perhaps its nothing more than chip amps having their 15 minutes of fame and now the crowd is moving along to the next "fad" (in this case probably digital amps).


Looks like I may get a chance to home audition a gainclone from someone who has a owned/heard a few chip amp variants.  He says that they all sound similar.  I'll report back my findings.

[JLM]

As offered a gain clone arrived two days ago.  This amp houses the power supply in a separate cabinet and only offers one stereo input.  I'd just packed up the JVC RXES1SL 100 wpc digital/hybrid (that had finally reached the magical 300 hour break in mark and was sounding stupid good for the price and just plain very good with no qualifications).  I've also had a 12 wpc Decware Torii (EL34 based integrated tube amp) for an extended in-home audition and my 6 year old 100 wpc Rotel receiver.

First the bad news.  Overall construction is heavy, but details are not so good.  Ordinary connectors, loose fitting amp cabinet, and volume control rubs on the face plate.  The power supply has a very audible 60 Hz hum.  And there's bleed-in from a nearby FM radio station that is clearly audible at lower levels (was much, much worse until I moved all the cabling around).

Good news:  Improved dynamics over anything I've tried.  Much, much more detailed.  Highs have more clarity.  Bass is solid and more defined.  Increased tonality.  Familar recordings sound new.  Recordings that I previously thought of as "ordinary" (not audiophile grade) are now amazing (such as Bob James' "Ivory Coast").  It will be a few days before I can seriously set the room up for a serious audition and report on imaging.

[Bemopti123]

What sort of Gainclone is it?  Is it homemade or one of the pro 47 Lab Gaincard knockoffs?  The thing about picking up the RF interference, I have also heard from JohnK, in Audiogon.  It seems as if the Gaincards and most Gainclones are cursed with this issue.....According to the distributor of the Gaincard, the casing was made of Aluminum and other metals in order to "release" any mechanical vibration as far as possible and thus prevent the "smearing" of the sound due to vibration.  Even my Shigaraki was more sensitive to RF or Wireless access and made a loud sound when I got near it with a cellphone on.  Well, that is the trade of these sort of components.

PS:  The Final Laboratories Music 6 does not produce or pick up any RF.  This amp is in a different league, regardless what people say about it or any other  chipamps.

[Sotantar]

Not that it is an inexpensive chip amp, 6 moons has me thinking that Nelson Pass's F-1 might be the most perfect single driver amp there is.

[JLM]

As I've heard, bass from the F-1 is poorly damped, thereby lending itself to compression or horn loaded speakers, like Ed Schilling's The Horns.  In contrast, amps with well damped bass sound aneimic on such speakers.

I'm sure with the right speakers both the F-1 and Music 6 are marvelous.  Seems that they both need fairly high efficiency speakers to be at their best.

The gainclone I've got is home brew.  The power supply (separate box) hums badly, but the RF problem is worse.  The amp is in a heavy metal cabinet.

[gonefishin]

JLM,

    You may just need to do some rerouting or slight modifications to cut the hum down.  Ampchipdiy and Diy audio chip forums are two good places to start asking questions.

   Is the (above) homebrew amp yours, or are you borrowing it?

  dan

[JLM]

Dan,

The amp is borrowed and home brewed.

Thanks for the leads.

The FM bleed in was helped a great deal by moving around some cabling, but the hum is simply from the separate power supply.