Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?

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hum4god

Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« on: 15 Mar 2020, 07:45 pm »
Hi

i remember using  a red wine audio battery amp a gazillion years ago , Vinnie sure came a long way , congrats to all the achievements.

so while looking for a great DAC I stumbled across the LIO and i am very curious about  the options that exist(ed) .

if someone could list the available options and what they cost that would be great . most of them i found on the web page,
afaik ,

base unit 2995
analog in 295
xlr in 395
DAC 2  3295
mosfet amp 895
head amp 695

i am a little confused about the RVC + tubestage vs. the DHT stage . can they both be run at the same time or does the DHT replace the  RVC + tube ?
i also could not find the price for DHT stage ?
and lastly , i read somewhere that there are different volume ctrl options , could someone explain what is what and how it works ?

thanks
malcolm

ps i would love to buy the latest from Vinnie but that is really beyond what i can afford unfortunately.

gene9p

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Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #1 on: 16 Mar 2020, 02:39 pm »
You can e-mail Vinnie since the LIO is out of production but some trade ins are available for purchase..even some mods are discounted too. He responds very quickly. The DHt and AVC are two entirely different line stages and cannot be run at the same time. The AVC uses a variety of smaller tubes where as the DHT uses much larger tubes. The LIO can be used a pre-amp or as an integrated amp with amp mod added. It can also be configured with balanced in puts and outputs for an external amp. For me Vinnie customized a phono mod to add 3 more rca inputs. it can be easily removed to add the actual phono stage.


I too cannot afford the newest and the upgrade bug is biting so I keep my fingers crossed for some way new or something new that will enhance my LIO. A more powerful amp mod would be nice or a re release of the VR120 amp would be kool.

Vinnie R.

Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #2 on: 17 Mar 2020, 05:04 am »
Hi hum4god,

Thank you!  I do have a few LIO trade-in units, and I received your email and responded this evening.

Quote
i am a little confused about the RVC + tubestage vs. the DHT stage . can they both be run at the same time or does the DHT replace the  RVC + tube ?

The DHT PRE consists of the RVC (resistor volume control) + the DHT PRE module (which replaces the 6922-based Tubestage module). 

Quote
i also could not find the price for DHT stage ?

The MSRP of the DHT PRE was $5995 (included the external power supply, new top panel, DHT PRE module, a pair of EH2A3 Gold grid tubes, and a few other items).

Regarding the different preamp options, this has been discussed in length in various posts in this forum.  If I had more time available right now, I'd try to hunt through them to
give you links

Note:

- LIO was discontinued as of August 2019.  I do have a handful of LIO trade-in units available (as well as new and trade-in modules).  Please email me the configuration that you are looking
for and I'll try my best to respond within 24 hours, but it could be a little longer over the next few weeks because I am still very busy with new L2 orders. :o  I figured that things would have slowed down a bit by now, but it seems to be getting busier.  With the upcoming reviews for the L2i and L2i-SE, I do not know what to expect.

Quote
I too cannot afford the newest and the upgrade bug is biting so I keep my fingers crossed for some way new or something new that will enhance my LIO. A more powerful amp mod would be nice or a re release of the VR120 amp would be kool.

Hi gene9p,

I think I mentioned this in one of the LIO threads a while back, but a more powerful amplifier module for LIO is not in the cards (I tried to make it happen a while back).  It would require a new enclosure and new power supply design, along with the new amplifier design (and a new LIO Motherboard to accommodate all of this), and it would get very costly.

For LIO customers, I still offer modules (new and trade-in modules) so features and upgrades can still be had (including the L2 DAC and L2 Phonostage modules, which are compatible with a firmware update) - but there is only so much that can fit inside.  There are internal space, heat and power supply considerations.

Stay healthy, everyone!

Vinnie

jriggy

Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #3 on: 17 Mar 2020, 04:40 pm »
You can e-mail Vinnie since the LIO is out of production but some trade ins are available for purchase..even some mods are discounted too. He responds very quickly. The DHt and AVC are two entirely different line stages and cannot be run at the same time. The AVC uses a variety of smaller tubes where as the DHT uses much larger tubes. The LIO can be used a pre-amp or as an integrated amp with amp mod added. It can also be configured with balanced in puts and outputs for an external amp. For me Vinnie customized a phono mod to add 3 more rca inputs. it can be easily removed to add the actual phono stage.


I too cannot afford the newest and the upgrade bug is biting so I keep my fingers crossed for some way new or something new that will enhance my LIO. A more powerful amp mod would be nice or a re release of the VR120 amp would be kool.

Hey gene9p,

I saw your post in another thread about possibly wanting the DHT board for your LIO but it not fitting in the rack you just built and thought I’d post my idea for you here...

How about cutting a slot or hole(s) in the shelf above where the top of the tubes would hit? It would solve your issue by letting tubes breath upward as well as allow access. The access would still be out of the way of most all gear feet, so you wouldn’t loose usage of the above. And I bet you could still instal and remove from below without having to feed the tubes through the top shelf down. Just a thought, not knowing what your built rack is.

gene9p

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Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #4 on: 17 Mar 2020, 04:55 pm »
cannot be done..thanks..plus my VPI Classic 2 Turntable is on the shelf above.




cmvinyl22

Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #5 on: 17 Mar 2020, 07:08 pm »
For LIO DHT owners or future LIO DHT owners (if you can solve your rack issue which does look difficult to solve), I read in a review of the L2 that there is an aluminum donut shaped plate attached to the tube sockets.  According to the review, together with other items, this helps shield the tubes from 50/60Hz hum pickup. That would be a very nice upgrade path towards an L2 for those of us who cannot go all the way to an L2, if it was possible.

 

jriggy

Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #6 on: 18 Mar 2020, 07:04 pm »
cannot be done..thanks..plus my VPI Classic 2 Turntable is on the shelf above.




Ah ok. I guess the shelves aren’t wood / can’t be cut. Otherwise it would most certainly work and the tubes would not get anywhere close to your table.

gene9p

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Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #7 on: 18 Mar 2020, 08:17 pm »
How would you slide the LIO in or out..even change tubes? The TT weighs over 65lbs and that's not moving..lol. Not to mention how it's set/calibrated.

gene9p

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Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #8 on: 21 Mar 2020, 03:14 pm »
I took delivery of a P S Audio Stellar s300 today. It definitely gives some nice kick and detail to the Bryston Mini A speakers. Same for the Snell KIII's but the Bryston's really love it. Unfortunately it has a hum that is related to being in the same rack with my other gear. Dead quiet when sitting on the floor but that doesn't work for me to place it on my older/retired amp stand. I moved it to several different shelves but still humming even with the LIO and all gear turned off and only the amp on. I can add more shelves but in the past I found the rack was so high I needed a stool to work on my turntable settings...lol It has a 30day return policy and some claim it goes away after a 100 hour or so break in so I will give it a fair trial. I ordered it in black and it is quite impressively built. I will contact their customer service Monday  for any ideas other than what I have read or what's included in the manual about ground hum.

 It is ON SALE right now because of the cancellation of AXPONIA. ...1199 gets it delivered and free return shipping if it's not for you. Doesn't run hot as it's a Class A/D amp and pairs well with the LIO. Not as warm sounding as the amp MOD but right OOB it's very detailed with a wide sound stage. Why not put it on my amp stand? Well I cut down size and sold off some great gear when switching over to the LIO. That included selling my big Parasound A21 and McIntosh 152 amps.If I was to use an amp with the LIO again , those would still be here. ALL in All the small S300 is making a really good first impression.

https://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-s300-power-amplifier/

quick update on the HUM:....it's the xlr outputs from the LIO, at first I thought it was my phono stage but it's  definitely the xlr's. Vinnie contacted me believe it or not 2 years ago that there might be an issue with my mod when it was built and offered a replacement mod. I thought was ok but guess I was wrong. Ground wire may not be connected. Here's hoping I can do a home repair when I hear back from Vinnie. Otherwise I will have to wait on a new mod.

« Last Edit: 23 Mar 2020, 01:50 am by gene9p »

gene9p

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Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #9 on: 23 Mar 2020, 02:40 pm »
Vinnie responded quickly and is sending me a new xlr mod. How great is that.!!!! Vinnie is right up there at the top of the food chain with customer service...lol. He and several others I met at the NY Audio shows over the years are the reasons why I own the gear that I have. Quality build  and great Customer Service  :thumb:

jriggy

Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #10 on: 23 Mar 2020, 06:08 pm »
How would you slide the LIO in or out..even change tubes? The TT weighs over 65lbs and that's not moving..lol. Not to mention how it's set/calibrated.

You had mentioned that you measured and the DHT tubes would just touch the bottom of the top shelf. Within my mental assessment, one would not need to remove the LIO to change tubes. One would —with that ’tube hole‘ cut in the top shelf, only to allow for height and breathable room of the tubes— take tube in hand, angle it to get in close to positioning for insertion, then straighten out tube up into the cut slot of the above shelf (now with it at a location with enough height to be upright), line the pins up and insert it (which is easy to do almost blind with 4pin DHT tubes)... But I am a visual thinker, have experience with LIO DHT, as well as other large tubes and carefully managing the insertion and removal of a larger rectifier tube in another piece that has a shelf above it.
It might not yet make sense and would be easier to explain with unlimited time and unlimited words...but it makes perfect sense to me. LOL. It was just a thought —ideas us problem-solver-audiophiles think of. But sounds like it’s best you stay your course.
have fun and good luck.

gene9p

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Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #11 on: 23 Mar 2020, 06:30 pm »
appreciate the ideas and info.  :D


gene9p

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Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #12 on: 26 Mar 2020, 10:36 pm »
replaced xlr mod which was missing the ground wire and all sounds great!!

thanks Vinnie for the super fast help and shipment!!


TimS

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Using the Line Level inputs?
« Reply #13 on: 19 Aug 2020, 09:05 pm »
Hi

Didn't think my basic question warranted a new thread so could someone please confirm the following?
Got a friend coming over with his new NOS DAC for a mini-shootout with my LIO (DAC 2.0, DHT PRE linestage) 
I think I have it right if I connect his NOS DAC into the L/R line-level input (LIO INPUT SELECT - IN-1, IN-2, IN-3).  By using IN-3, I think this means that only the DAC 2.0 will be by-passed; his NOS DAC will still be using the DHT PRE linestage? 
Then I can use the remote to quickly switch between my source input (D1) and his DAC IN-3 (A3)
Does this sound right?

Vinnie R.

Re: Using the Line Level inputs?
« Reply #14 on: 19 Aug 2020, 10:46 pm »
Hi

Didn't think my basic question warranted a new thread so could someone please confirm the following?


Hi TimS,

You and all my customers are always welcome to email me your questions directly.  These days, I am so bombarded that I don't have time for this forum like I used to (so I'm not sure I
will keep it going much longer, but you can always contact me directly via email).  I'm glad I got a notice of your post in my email.

Quote
Got a friend coming over with his new NOS DAC for a mini-shootout with my LIO (DAC 2.0, DHT PRE linestage) 
I think I have it right if I connect his NOS DAC into the L/R line-level input (LIO INPUT SELECT - IN-1, IN-2, IN-3).  By using IN-3, I think this means that only the DAC 2.0 will be by-passed; his NOS DAC will still be using the DHT PRE linestage? 
Then I can use the remote to quickly switch between my source input (D1) and his DAC IN-3 (A3)
Does this sound right?


All the analog inputs (IN1, 2, and 3) go through the volume control and DHT PRE.

Keep in mind that while you can switch between the external dac and your dac, unless both days output the same voltage ("level matched") then doing A/B swapping is
probably not the best way to evaluate them because one will sound louder than the other.  Even if it is only by a small amount, the dac with the higher output voltage could
sound "more dynamic, brighter, fuller, more detailed, etc. etc." 

Hope this helps!

Vinnie

TimS

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Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #15 on: 20 Aug 2020, 01:03 am »
Thx Vinnie - let the battle begin!!

Yomaha

Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #16 on: 21 Aug 2020, 05:06 am »
Thx Vinnie - let the battle begin!!

Cool!  Would be interested to know how it shook out.

gene9p

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Re: Vinnie Rossi LIO what are the options ?
« Reply #17 on: 21 Aug 2020, 02:10 pm »
I can tell you I have the Dac one in my LIO and a Bryston BDA1 DAC. The Bryston is connected via the coax input as well as the balanced inputs that Vinnie installed for me. The digital input sounds  a bit lower compared to the xlrs because the balanced output runs a bit HOT...louder..however the Bryston Dac allows to raise or lower the output 1 db at at time..zero being the actual. Both sound excellent whereas the Bryston can seem more detailed at times..and brighter so I lower it by 1 db. I don't have the dac two..sorry..to compare them. The Bryston uses a dual cyruss chip set while the Dac one uses a dual Audiokarma set. if you don't have the ability to lower the output of your dac the internal one will seem weaker and need to raise the volume to match the connected device. I like having both..a lot goes into building a good high end Dac and I have used several over the years b4 setting in on the Bryston. Of course using and external dac means good cabling and matching to get the best sound from it whereas the built in dac one or two omits that need and can deliver a cleaner sound.  :popcorn: