[Psychicanimal]

A simple line filter should be good in most cases...
steve

     

[DVV]

If you and/or anyone else is interested, let me know and I'll mail it to you, or perhaps JohnR can tell me where to drop it off here for a more general availability.

Try audioholics.com. They seem to like brow-beating over there

I feel so supported, so surrounded by trust and caring.

Cheers,
DVV

[DVV]

A simple line filter should be good in most cases...
steve

     

Yeah, I know Francisco, the understatement of the decade. Oh well, ...

Cheers,
DVV

[Psychicanimal]

I feel so supported, so surrounded by trust and caring.

Cheers,
DVV

I wouldn't worry, a man like you can be in two places at the same time, Serbia and Montenegro!

[sys1]

eico1-"A simple line filter should be good in most cases, but no external device will cure a bad internal power supply design."

A simple line may not be enough, but I don't care how clean the power
is that you feed a digital devise with a SMPS. If you don't clean up  the ripple noise and RF/EMI these things generating, you'll never know how good your equipment can sound.

Adding big isolation transformers is just like the buy another box or cable fix. If you seek great performance, eventually you have to go inside the
box or pay someone to do it for you.

[JoshK]

Hey Francisco/Dejan,

Have any of you guys analyzed some of your power conditioning (for lack of better term) products with such line viewers?   I wonder how some of them compare in actual use.

I am going to be putting in 3 or 4 dedicated lines in for my system (somewhat easy being only 18' from my breaker box) and I'm trying to plan how best to deal with the power from each line.  

Another food for thought question, even though some BPT are rated for tons of amps/watts, have you ever noticed that they can seem to make things sound slow or held back?

[satfrat]

Hey Francisco/Dejan,

 

Another food for thought question, even though some BPT are rated for tons of amps/watts, have you ever noticed that they can seem to make things sound slow or held back?

                                                                                                              This opinion is the total opposite from my experiences w/ and w/o my BP2.5 in my gear. If anything, my bass is very much puncher and definitely cleaner. I find nothing slow bout using a BPT whatsoever. But then again, mine is more than just a balanced power conditioner. With all the added tweaks, mine is much much more. Just a novice opinion for sure. Any other BPT owners got one?  Regards, Robin

[Psychicanimal]

Hey Francisco/Dejan,


Another food for thought question, even though some BPT are rated for tons of amps/watts, have you ever noticed that they can seem to make things sound slow or held back?

You're on your way to Nirvana.  PM me...

[nathanm]

Do these isolation transformers have the ability to

1) Eliminate a group loop
2) Reduce the level of such
3) Do nothing for ground loops

[Psychicanimal]

Do these isolation transformers have the ability to

1) Eliminate a group loop
2) Reduce the level of such
3) Do nothing for ground loops

If the ground loop is between the particular component being plugged, yes to #1.

[nathanm]

So one of the conflicting devices should be plugged into the transformer, or both of them?

I'm getting a weird hum between my computer and my stereo.  The preamp only has a 2-prong polarized plug and the amp it's going into has a three prong, but lifting the ground on the amp does nothing.  Very odd.

Also those OneAC devices are usually just 1amp or so.  Is there a fuse or breaker on 'em that will blow if you accidentally draw too much current?

[Psychicanimal]

So one of the conflicting devices should be plugged into the transformer, or both of them?

I'm getting a weird hum between my computer and my stereo.  The preamp only has a 2-prong polarized plug and the amp it's going into has a three prong, but lifting the ground on the amp does nothing.  Very odd.

Also those OneAC devices are usually just 1amp or so.  Is there a fuse or breaker on 'em that will blow if you accidentally draw too much current?

1) one component.

2)  I went crazy for months trying to figure something like that and two prong adapters didn't work.  It was a loose ground inside my power amp.

3) I can send you a 3.5 amp Chicago Isolation Transformer (two prong).  The ONEAC's have fuses.  The Chicago doesn't but it's killer and outperforms the smaller ONEAC's.  It also has three voltage taps: 105,115, 125V.

[eico1]

Using single ended interconnections will always invite a certain amount of ground-loops, interchassis currents and noise pick-up and what-not.

Shouldn't a serious assault on power issues include isolating components by eliminating single ended connections? Otherwise all of your power supplies are actually connected together via your interconnects.

High-end signal isolation transformers are actually pretty inexpensive too, like the iso-max from Jensen.

For real diy, I just met Bill Witlock at the AES show and he has designed a new balanced op-amp input stage is anyone is interested:

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/ingenaes.pdf

[DVV]

I feel so supported, so surrounded by trust and caring.

Cheers,
DVV

I wouldn't worry, a man like you can be in two places at the same time, Serbia and Montenegro!

Yeah, you're right, assuming you wanna be in Montenegro. Haven't been there since 1991, I go for my summer vacation to Greece. Costs me about the same, but I get a !@#$ of a lot more for my money in Greece.

Cheers,
DVV

[DVV]

Hey Francisco/Dejan,

Have any of you guys analyzed some of your power conditioning (for lack of better term) products with such line viewers?   I wonder how some of them compare in actual use.

I can supply some filtering curves they didn't want you to see, and if you do, you'll know why. PM me Josh, I'm at dvv@bitsyu.net .

I am going to be putting in 3 or 4 dedicated lines in for my system (somewhat easy being only 18' from my breaker box) and I'm trying to plan how best to deal with the power from each line.  

Another food for thought question, even though some BPT are rated for tons of amps/watts, have you ever noticed that they can seem to make things sound slow or held back?

Transformers of ANY kind, no matter how good they are, are always slow to respond in comparison with other methods. They have their natural inertia, both physically (mechanically) and electrically. Also, the question of the materials used and the production practices becomes a very important issue. As an example, if you wind any transformer relatively loosely, it will have losses you can't overlook; if you wind it tight as hell, your losses begin to drop into the twightlight zone. Wanna guess which is more expensive, and hence much less used?

Ultimately, let's face it, say 99.99% of all transformers made on this planet use cheap materials because they are by default expensive anyway. If they used sintered materials, losses would drop to practically below the level of any reasonable measurement, but the transformers would cost something like 8-10 times the price, perhaps a little less in serial production. A simple ring, made of sintered materials, good for say 10-12 VA costs more than a 30-40 VA ready made toroid. And you have to wind that ring, insulate it, the works.

But you WOULDN'T have that laid back feeling with it, believe me.

Cheers,
DVV

[DVV]

This opinion is the total opposite from my experiences w/ and w/o my BP2.5 in my gear. If anything, my bass is very much puncher and definitely cleaner. I find nothing slow bout using a BPT whatsoever. But then again, mine is more than just a balanced power conditioner. With all the added tweaks, mine is much much more. Just a novice opinion for sure. Any other BPT owners got one?  Regards, Robin

Not doubting you here, Robin, but how many others have you heard? I mean, when you say "punchier", I assume you mean without the BPT. That's understandable, that's what most line filters will do reasonably well, but the questions is how about the rest, and especially, how about the treble? Do you now hear more ambient information or not?

The point being, a really good line filter, no matter what technology it uses inside, must open the door to the ENTIRE spectrum. It's good if you are almost punched in the face with spatial information, like the cello player sitting to the right behind the trombone player. Things like being able to make a fairly good guess about the size of the room the recording was made in. Things like hearing the squeaking of somebody's pedal because he forgot to oil it (as, for example, on my The Animals Greatest MGM LP).

Cheers,
DVV

[brj]

If they used sintered materials, losses would drop to practically below the level of any reasonable measurement, but the transformers would cost something like 8-10 times the price, perhaps a little less in serial production. A simple ring, made of sintered materials, good for say 10-12 VA costs more than a 30-40 VA ready made toroid. And you have to wind that ring, insulate it, the works.

Ok, so who does make such a transformer?  A quick Google search for "sinter" and "transformer" shows lots of manufacturing companies, but I haven't found an appropriate product yet....

[JoshK]

Anybody crazy enough to wind your own?  Could you get the tolerances tight enough by DIY?  Curious...   I can see it now, instead of grandma knitting parties, we could have audiophile toriod winding parties!  

[satfrat]

Not doubting you here, Robin, but how many others have you heard? I mean, when you say "punchier", I assume you mean without the BPT. That's understandable, that's what most line filters will do reasonably well, but the questions is how about the rest, and especially, how about the treble? Do you now hear more ambient information or not?

The point being, a really good line filter, no matter what technology it uses inside, must open the door to the ENTIRE spectrum. It's good if you are almost punched in t ...

  Nope DVV, I mean  WITH the BPT, the bass is punchier and much more livelier, by about 3db. The treble w/ BPT is what this conditioner is all about cuz of the way it cleaans out the ground noise and allows all that hidden unformation to come flowing thru in all it's glory. I had my BP2.5 whenit was only a balanced transformer. It was because of what it did them that got me involved in much better gear than I had ever owned before. Now, I have a Z-Sleeve Ultra and 2 Bybee's on the BPT's power cord, a high current noise filter before the tranny, 2 more Bybee's after the tranny, and everything wrapped in many layers of Stillpoints ERS/aluminum tape combo,,, I'd guess over 20 sheets of ERS total. Oh yeah, and 3 layers of dampening material on the inner casing too. I have Z-Sleeve/Bybee combo on each and every terminal, that being dgital IC, speaker, and video. I also have a dedicated circuit. OK DVV, you got me on the experience, no doubt about it. I have only herad 2 other systems in my short venture in audiophobia(is that a word?) and both of those systems had BPT, one of those systems being Zybar. There are many ways to skin a cat and for sure I haven't experienced them all. I have a very open mind(and brain to match). DVV, have you actually listened to a BPT with Chris Hoff's specially made Plitron transformer? Much has been written about the musicallty of those transformers and I'm wondering if they might be constructed a little differently that you are accustomed to dealing with? Just speculating here, no assumtions. Anywho, rest assured that that in a A/B audition of my gear w/ and w/o my BPT, there would be no doubt in the full spectrum transformation and where it was coming from. I sure like the opportunity to awaken Mr. all you need is a good line conditioner 's ears. And while I'm ranting here, I want to thank (again) PsychicAnimal for his posts of a couple years ago that really was the catalyst that steered me to power conditioning.   I wouldn't be here today had I not. And THAT'S A FACT!  Regards, Robin

[DVV]

Ok, so who does make such a transformer?  A quick Google search for "sinter" and "transfor ...

Lots of people make them, but the million dollar question is who makes them large enough to wind powerful toroids, where powerful is say 300, 400, 500 VA?

Sintered rings or mini toroids are routinely used for chokes - your PC has at least one of them, somewhere just prior to the CPU, and guess what? It's used for filtering of the incoming power.

But I haven't seen a really nice, large sintered ferrite ring capable of supporting significant power, and if I did, I'd probably also see a massive coronary when I get to the price.

Cheers,
DVV