[dB Cooper]

I don't consider $400 to $2k a giant leap.

I do.

I also think a well driven hd800 makes the headphones you mentioned sound like toys. A good bang for the buck but only a glimpse of hifi not actual hifi.

"Not actual hifi"? OK. Two of the models I mentioned were Stereophile author references at one time or another, and the HD650 was in production for close to 15 years. As good as the HD800? Probably not, but "not [even] actual hifi"? Jeez.

[jibzilla]

I do.

"Not actual hifi"? OK. Two of the models I mentioned were Stereophile author references at one time or another, and the HD650 was in production for close to 15 years. As good as the HD800? Probably not, but "not [even] actual hifi"? Jeez.

That is fine if you think it is a giant leap. Don't go for it. But that does not automatically mean the hd800 is an overpriced headphone.

Stereophile is funny. They are way more into speakers. The fact that Tyll from headroom and Doug from ECP build amps for the hd800 speaks way more volumes than anything stereophile has to say.

I don't know why you feel the need to bring up how long the hd650 has been in production. The Sony mdr-v6 has been in production twice as long.

[jibzilla]

Not fine at this price. If you have two 6'' FR drivers laying around you could made a DIY headphones to know how good it is.

I would never put drivers that large that close to my ears. I think the chance of someone hurting their hearing is very good and I think your posts should be taken down at the risk of someone actually trying that and permanently ruining their hearing.

If you want to DIY your own headphones and give impressions that is one thing. To suggest that people put 6 inch drivers less than 1 inch away from their ear is just plain dangerous, careless and shame on you.

[timind]

I would never put drivers that large that close to my ears. I think the chance of someone hurting their hearing is very good and I think your posts should be taken down at the risk of someone actually trying that and permanently ruining their hearing.

If you want to DIY your own headphones and give impressions that is one thing. To suggest that people put 6 inch drivers less than 1 inch away from their ear is just plain dangerous, careless and shame on you.

His post should be taken down? Ridiculous is the most polite way I can put it. Have you never laid on the floor with your ears between your speakers and jammed? Back in the 70s Born To Run was killer in that way. Taken down? 

[timind]

Thanks timind. It's the ol' 'Law of Diminishing Returns'. IMJ what you are paying for with much high-priced gear is frequently 'bling' more so than performance. I don't have a 'bling' budget so I have Amirons not HD800's. I've heard both, and when I'm sitting listening to my Beyers, I'm not thinking, "Sh**, I wish I had HD800's", Im thinking, "Wow, this music sounds great." As Frank van Alstine said in his old newsletter, "There are many more sideways steps taken on the road to audio bliss than forward steps." (Paraphrasing.)

It's all in the ear of the listener.

I don't consider $400 to $2k a giant leap. I also think a well driven hd800 makes the headphones you mentioned sound like toys. A good bang for the buck but only a glimpse of hifi not actual hifi.

To your ear that may be, but I have done serious listening to the HD800 with quality amp and I much prefer the HD650. If you put a new set of each on a table and told me they were mine to keep with the stipulation I had to listen to whichever I chose for a year, I'd pick up the 650s.

[dB Cooper]

reboot

[dB Cooper]

That is fine if you think it is a giant leap. Don't go for it. But that does not automatically mean the hd800 is an overpriced headphone.

I didn't say that it was.

All I'm saying is that $2K is a lot more money than $400.

I don't know why you feel the need to bring up how long the hd650 has been in production. The Sony mdr-v6 has been in production twice as long.

I don't know why you feel the need to say the HD650 "isn't real Hi-Fi". Is it as good as HD800? No, of course not... Is that the starting point for "real hi-fi"? Anything less is 'mid-fi' I guess? The 650 has done pretty well for something that isn't 'real hi-fi'. Perspective. And Happy Birthday Sony MDR-V6.

[jibzilla]

His post should be taken down? Ridiculous is the most polite way I can put it. Have you never laid on the floor with your ears between your speakers and jammed? Back in the 70s Born To Run was killer in that way. Taken down? 

Did you have the speakers less than 1 inch from your ears? No you did not. Yes what he is suggesting is dangerous.

[jibzilla]

I didn't say that it was.

All I'm saying is that $2K is a lot more money than $400.

I don't know why you feel the need to say the HD650 "isn't real Hi-Fi". Is it as good as HD800? No, of course not... Is that the starting point for "real hi-fi"? Anything less is 'mid-fi' I guess? The 650 has done pretty well for something that isn't 'real hi-fi'. Perspective. And Happy Birthday Sony MDR-V6.

Well the next jump from what I mentioned at $2k is the sr-009s + DIY T2 or Utopia + DAVE. Price tag $14k or 28k for both. That is really what it will take to have something that will operate on a higher level. IMO. that is a leap. $400 to $2k not so much.

I know plenty of enthusiasts that will say the hd800 combo I mentioned just a glimpse of hifi. Does not really bother me.

[jibzilla]

It's all in the ear of the listener.

To your ear that may be, but I have done serious listening to the HD800 with quality amp and I much prefer the HD650. If you put a new set of each on a table and told me they were mine to keep with the stipulation I had to listen to whichever I chose for a year, I'd pick up the 650s.

If you like the 650 sonically that is fine. The hd800 can sound like doodoo even out of high quality amps. The schiit mojo and Beta 22 are both great amps but sound like an ice pick (very bright) with the hd800. You really need the 2 amps I mentioned.

Comfort and build quality no. That for sure goes to the hd800 no question. Way better materials on the hd800 all the way around and probably the most comfortable headphone out there regardless of cost.

The hd650 has the clamp of death. If you got a used hd650 consider yourself very lucky as far as comfort goes. I can say for me it took at least 500 hours before the clamp loosened up for me. Before that I could only wear the hd650 15 to 20 min. tops. The hd800 3hours easy right out of the box.

A new hd650 is $500 a used hd800 is only $750.

The hd650 is a very uncomfortable headphone till the super tight clamp goes away

[dB Cooper]

Through observation I have noticed that most people don't extend the earpieces far enough out of the headband and this raises the clamping pressure dramatically. The headband should just barely touch the top of the head; if you feel pressure there, it's on too tight and you need to extend the headband a click or two. If this is done, the clamping pressure is perfectly reasonable, though never as comfortable as the 800 or the Beyer Amirons I sold my 650's for (which also sound much better). Materials-wise the hd*00 cleans the 650's clock for sure.

The Amirons are actually the most comfortable full-size cans I've ever had on, even better (for me) than the 800, but the 800 is no slouch and wins somewhat on sound for ~2.5x the price.

[jibzilla]

I liked the akg "Annies" better than the hd800 as far as comfort goes. That is about it though.

If you like a darker sounding headphone than the hd800, like the hd650, I really like the Koss ESP950 and Stax sr-404le. The rest of the lambda's stink sound wise and the build quality of the Koss is not the greatest but they really make it clear to me why I can't quite put the hd600 and 650 into the "true hifi" category and that is grain.

Some people do not hear the grain. For me it is obvious. Still the 600/650 are a very good bang for the buck and a better bang for the buck than hd800.

[FullRangeMan]

New HifiMan planar at $999 25 ohms seems into the Edition X  range.
http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/ananda.html

[Armaegis]

I though the parts were cast aluminum, steel are expensive and heavy.
Alumimum is so cheap they made soda cans with it.

An older post, but aluminum for the most part is more expensive than steel.
You make soda cans from aluminum because it doesn't rust. 

[dB Cooper]

It's not just the raw materials... Stainless steel is a much harder material than aluminum and therefore much more expensive to do machining on. The stainless steel versions of the Apple Watch are almost twice as expensive as the aluminum versions for the exact same reason.

[FullRangeMan]

I though the HD800 hardware was alu, there is any info on it?
Any HD800 owner would inform it?

[dB Cooper]

https://www.stereophile.com/headphones/sennheiser_hd800_headphones/index.html

[FullRangeMan]

Well this HPs will delivery the biggest soundstage:
https://icacreation.co.uk/3m-headphones-making/

[JohnR]

New HifiMan planar at $999 25 ohms seems into the Edition X  range.
http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/ananda.html

Those look pretty interesting, I wonder what the local price is going to be...

[FullRangeMan]

I surprised with HifiMan they release many HPs at an impressive pace, one after the other.