The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread

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Tyson

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #740 on: 12 Aug 2019, 03:28 am »
Holy crap,,  the  rest of my household is gone  for  a  few days so...  it is  official    S7   "through their paces"  night....    wow.  New  gear   ( portotypes)   but    lots of  fun and  pretty  dam  loud....  will try  and post  some  pics    later  :)

jay

Yeah man!  Haha, sometimes in audio we talk about tradeoffs, how one speaker gets you 'this', but another speaker get's you 'that', and it's all about what you can live with.

But sometimes, a piece of gear is just flat out better than the other stuff.  So it is with the Super 7s. 

Captainhemo

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #741 on: 12 Aug 2019, 10:58 pm »
They performed well, we through everything at them from  an early  am   listen  to a  a Vivaldi violin  session to a late night  "in room " performance by Black Sabbath  ( LOL) with the Japenese mastered version of Paranoid".at much higher  than  my  normal  listening level  !!!  Ended up being a 12 hour  listening  session so  there  were  lots of genre's stops along  the way.
Mivera  dropped by so we got to spend the afternoon/evening with a prototype of  his upcoming Pure Music  which was  powered with a pair of the new Purifi modules.  Sounded really damn good!!.

Tyson,  I can't  recall where  you are but at  some point, you  need to get up to Danny's or someone closer  who  has  some  NX - Oticas to hear them,  I think you'll be  surprised.  I'd honestly  have a  tough time choosing one over the other,  the  S7's   are  faster and  I'd say a  bit more detailed in the mid's, plus, they've got the  built in subs which  is  really  nice for some  people.  The Otica's  are  a bit   more "rich"  sounding if that makes sense and probably image  slightly better.....  I don't  have them here  any  longer  so can't do  a/b's .  I'd give the edge tothe Otica's on the  lower mid bass/upper  low  bass ....    not by much, the  Neo10's and dual 12's mate  up  really well once you get them dialed in.

jay

Tyson

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #742 on: 12 Aug 2019, 11:28 pm »
They performed well, we through everything at them from  an early  am   listen  to a  a Vivaldi violin  session to a late night  "in room " performance by Black Sabbath  ( LOL) with the Japenese mastered version of Paranoid".at much higher  than  my  normal  listening level  !!!  Ended up being a 12 hour  listening  session so  there  were  lots of genre's stops along  the way.
Mivera  dropped by so we got to spend the afternoon/evening with a prototype of  his upcoming Pure Music  which was  powered with a pair of the new Purifi modules.  Sounded really damn good!!.

Tyson,  I can't  recall where  you are but at  some point, you  need to get up to Danny's or someone closer  who  has  some  NX - Oticas to hear them,  I think you'll be  surprised.  I'd honestly  have a  tough time choosing one over the other,  the  S7's   are  faster and  I'd say a  bit more detailed in the mid's, plus, they've got the  built in subs which  is  really  nice for some  people.  The Otica's  are  a bit   more "rich"  sounding if that makes sense and probably image  slightly better.....  I don't  have them here  any  longer  so can't do  a/b's .  I'd give the edge tothe Otica's on the  lower mid bass/upper  low  bass ....    not by much, the  Neo10's and dual 12's mate  up  really well once you get them dialed in.

jay

I did hear the Mockingbird Audio line arrays, which I think used the same drivers as the NX-Oticas, yes?  Fabulous speakers.  But, I'd probably still pick the Super 7s even over an incredible speaker like that.  Why?  Because the Super 7s do one thing I've never heard any other multi-driver speaker do - have an absolutely seamless mid/tweeter integration.  I've heard a few that were close, but none that matched the perfection of the Super 7s.  It's a subtle thing, but you tend to notice it more and more, over time, in small ways.  For me, it was with the more challenging material like opera, or old Billie Holiday recordings, or anything put out by Neil Young, Tom Waits or Bob Dylan.  The perfection of the integration allowed these artists to go from "irritating" to very listenable. 

As I like to joke with my buddy Jason, if you visit other forums (like, oh, the Bryston forum), you hear people saying things like "with my new gear, my best recordings sound amazing, but it really exposes how poorly recorded the majority of my collection is".  Or some other tripe like that.  Yes, that's the ticket!  Upgrading makes your music less listenable, haha.  Right now, 70% of your collection is listenable, but if you keep on the upgrade path, you might get that down to only 50%!  Or maybe down to 30%, if you are really lucky!  Haha, it's so freaking stupid.

Anyway, the beauty of the Super 7s is that YOU HEAR EVERYTHING, but the integration and speed is such that it's never, ever in an analytical manner.  Always musical.  Always 100% of your music collection sounds better. 

Hey, have you driven them with tubes?  I found that they really opened up and started to sing when I went to tubes, particularly SET and SEP amps.  Even a 45 amp with 1.5 watts will fill up a room with great sound. 

Danny Richie

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #743 on: 12 Aug 2019, 11:39 pm »
I'll answer this one.

Quote
I did hear the Mockingbird Audio line arrays, which I think used the same drivers as the NX-Oticas, yes?

No, everything is different.

Tyson

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #744 on: 12 Aug 2019, 11:45 pm »
I'll answer this one.

No, everything is different.

Interesting.  Well then I really do need to hear the NX-Oticas.  Hmm, maybe a pair is coming to RMAF this year? 

Captainhemo

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #745 on: 13 Aug 2019, 12:02 am »
Tyson,    if it wasn't so  darn  hot  here I'd  do  that ( try the tubes).... have   access to the  K&K  6C33C SET mono's.  Maybe  when it  cools  off  we'll throw them in for a  bit...  won't have to turn  my furnace on   until January    :)



jay

Tyson

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #746 on: 13 Aug 2019, 05:37 am »
Tyson,    if it wasn't so  darn  hot  here I'd  do  that ( try the tubes).... have   access to the  K&K  6C33C SET mono's.  Maybe  when it  cools  off  we'll throw them in for a  bit...  won't have to turn  my furnace on   until January    :)
jay

Well those 6C33C tubes are probably the hottest tubes around, short of an 845 or 211.  Trust me, I know - I'm listening to my Almarro A318B SET right now in my upstairs system (driving Klipsch Forte IIIs) & it uses those tubes.  That thing's a furnace. 

On the other hand, my Dennis Had Inspire monoblocks run a lot cooler (single ended pentode).  Hell, even my 2a3/300b Japanese Elekit runs cooler than the damn 6C33C tubes!  You need a more reasonable tube amp, haha!

AKLegal

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #747 on: 13 Aug 2019, 03:02 pm »
This is all very interesting.  I should have my Super 7s up and running by this weekend but I won't be able to a/b them with my NX-Ottica monitors because I am reusing their pair of Neo 3s in the the Super 7s.  I have owned the NX-Otticas for 2 1/2 years now so I should be able to give decent comparisons from memory.  I expect I may have a slightly different take than captainhemo since my pair are monitors and I would never characterize them as being rich - only on rich sounding recordings.  The M165 drivers are the difference here.

The Super Mini with M165 drivers powered by a separate plate amp and a pair of servo h-frames might be the best of both worlds between the Super 7s and NX-Otticas.

Tyson

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #748 on: 13 Aug 2019, 04:40 pm »
The Super 7s really benefit from using copper caps, especially vs teflon caps.  Here's why.  Other speakers that use a cone for a midrange benefit from a teflon cap because a telfon cap sounds fast and transparent, and it sort of 'wakes up' a cone driver in a very nice way.  But the Super 7s are already inherently blazing fast sounding.  So a teflon cap is too much of a good thing & tends to make them sound a touch analytical and a touch thin. 

Copper caps on the other hand bring out the colors/beauty/warmth just a touch, so that the Super 7s now become supreme musical instruments.  If you notice, this is why I've slowly, methodically replaced everything in my Super 7 crossovers with copper.  And the Super 7's are so clear, so transparent, that ANY change you make upstream will have a noticeable impact on the sound. 

In the old days, that meant the expensive Jupiter caps.  But nowadays the new Miflex KPCU caps are cheaper and better than the Jupiters for a .1uf bypass cap. 

If you REALLY want to go all out & hear what the Super 7s are truly capable of, then Danny has some nice large copper caps for sale here - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=164761.0

Captainhemo

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #749 on: 13 Aug 2019, 04:47 pm »
Tyson
Those  K&K's are push-pull to,  beasts....
Will see how it goes,  have kind of lost intrest in tubes over the   past  couple years

Alfonso, glad  to hear you're almost   at the finish line with  your  S7's.   You  should be extremely happy with them   :thumb:

AKLegal

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #750 on: 22 Aug 2019, 02:59 pm »
I finally got these wired up.  They are not complete as I still need to finish the grills and install no rez.  For the crossovers I replaced the two smaller inductors with Mundorf foil inductors.  The midrange has a Jantzen Superior-Z bypassed with MiFlex KPCU.  The tweeter has Jantzen Silver-Z again bypassed with MiFlex.

Quick impressions on imaging and soundstage since they are the first things I listen for. More detail and pics to follow later on:

Imaging: I thought the Super 7 would be a step behind the NX-Ottica in this department because of the baffle size but they are not. The Super 7s midrange is extraordinarily clear and I think the clarity allows it to image just as well as the NX-Ottica despite its increased baffle width. 

Soundstaging: It was immediately apparent to me that soundstage depth is better with the Super 7s - probably due to the increased midrange clarity. I'm not talking about depth as in how far back it seems the sound is being generated from, but also layering - I'll post more about this as the crossovers settle in and I spend more time with the speakers.  Height and width will require more listening for me too but I didn't notice anything lacking on immediate comparison with the NX-Ottica.  The NX-Otticas have been amazing for me in this regard - soundstage width from side wall to side wall and height not just floor to ceiling but seeming as if it curves above you over head on a few recordings of mine. 

This is my fourth open baffle speaker designed by Danny.  I built a pair of V2s with 8 inch servo H-Frames about 6 years ago right when Danny first introduced the smaller 8 inch servos.  They replaced a pair of Volent CL2 Monitors.  I was so impressed by them that I built a pair of Super Vs the next year.  Then I built my NX-Ottica monitors almost 3 years ago. 

My audio chain:
J-River Media Center -->Digigram VX222e -->Schitt Yggdrasil (2nd Gen) -->Hegel H360
I can't remember the exact diminesions of my room but the setup is along the long wall and my room is heavily treated with bass traps and absorption panels at all first reflection points including the ceiling.

FYI: Since I mentioned them.  I still have V2 drivers in very good condition free to anyone who wants to pay shipping.   :thumb:

Early B.

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #751 on: 22 Aug 2019, 03:21 pm »
@ AKLegal -- Awesome! Looking forward to hearing more of your impressions once those caps break in. Post lots of pics!

Captainhemo

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #752 on: 22 Aug 2019, 03:42 pm »
Congrats  AKL  .   Looking  forward to seeing  some  pics.
Enjoy  some  music  man   :thumb:

jay

Tyson

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #753 on: 22 Aug 2019, 04:40 pm »
AKLegal, part of why the Super 7s have such great depth and layering is that the backwave coming off the Neo drivers is exactly the same as the front wave.  That's not possible with cone speakers because the cone is concave for the front wave and convex for the rear wave.  Seems like a small thing, but when you're at this level, small things matter :)

Danny Richie

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #754 on: 22 Aug 2019, 05:08 pm »
AKLegal, part of why the Super 7s have such great depth and layering is that the backwave coming off the Neo drivers is exactly the same as the front wave.  That's not possible with cone speakers because the cone is concave for the front wave and convex for the rear wave.  Seems like a small thing, but when you're at this level, small things matter :)

Yep, that stuff really matters.

But the NX-Otica and NX-Treme models set the tweeter back in a 1.5" deep waveguide so that the voice coils and tweeter diaphragm are perfectly aligned on both sides. So those models also share that advantage.

Tyson

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #755 on: 22 Aug 2019, 05:14 pm »
Also, with the H360 integrated having 250 watts, you'll never run out of power! 

Early B.

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #756 on: 22 Aug 2019, 06:25 pm »
Got a question --

Since the Neo10 is out of stock, is there any way to design a similar Super 7 using Neo8's and adding Danny's M165NQ drivers to fill in the lower octaves until a servo sub can take over? Just trying to get 99% of the Super 7 sound based on available stock.

May be a long shot, but figured I'd give it a try...

Danny Richie

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #757 on: 22 Aug 2019, 06:54 pm »
Got a question --

Since the Neo10 is out of stock, is there any way to design a similar Super 7 using Neo8's and adding Danny's M165NQ drivers to fill in the lower octaves until a servo sub can take over? Just trying to get 99% of the Super 7 sound based on available stock.

May be a long shot, but figured I'd give it a try...

No the Neo 8's won't work in that application. They really are just long tweeters. I have some stuff in the works though. I am working on getting some made.

AKLegal

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #758 on: 23 Aug 2019, 02:37 pm »
Also, with the H360 integrated having 250 watts, you'll never run out of power!

I had been toying with the going with lower watt class a monoblocks for about 2 years but I haven't been able to convince myself to do it.  Given how satisfied I am with what I am hearing I would want to audition any amp before I bought it.  I had a H200 that I used with the NX-Otticas for about a month before I found a great deal on the H360.  The Hegel amps and Danny's open baffle designs make an amazing combination.  As crazy as this might sound, given the improvement I had heard moving from the H200 to the H360 I'd consider picking up a H590 lol.

AKLegal

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #759 on: 31 Aug 2019, 12:20 am »
Small update.  These things are amazing.  I think the only thing they don't do better than the NX-Otica monitors is disappear into the room.  If the NX-Otticas get you 100% of the way there, the Super 7s get you about 95%.  The Super 7s soundstage depth more than make up for this. 

Any type of woodwind instrument - sax, trumpet, harmonica, bagpipes sound like god's voice on these things.

These are the first speakers I have ever owned that have made my headphones sound like crap in comparison.  Seriously, if I want to listen to headphones I make an effort to not listen to the Super 7s immediately before. 

Initially I had issues with drums sounding weak on the Super 7 so its been about a week and a half long process to dial them in.   My subs were tuned to match the NX-Otticas, which are marverlous with drums, so I had my subs crossover a bit lower since I didn't need them to play as high.  The Super 7 subs need to be crossover a little higher I think and its been a little bit of work finding that perfect setting that gives me that drum "pop" without causing other bass issues in my room.

My room has corner bass traps and absorption behind my tv.  The speakers are about 4 feet off the front wall.  My next project will be building some diffusers to put behind the speakers.






I already had amp boxes so I re-purposed the two in the flat pack to be crossover boxes.




Current System.  Top to bottom. Hegel H360; Audio GD Master 9 (headphone amp); Schiit Yggdrasil; Media PC; Schiit Jotunheim.
Headphones - since I mentioned them sounding like crap: Focal Elex; Sennheiser HD650 (modded); Foster TR-X00