symmetric connection on wta

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phoner

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symmetric connection on wta
« on: 11 Feb 2016, 11:57 am »
aloha,
i want to go symmetric on my mc cables.

my idea (at the moment) is to solder the cables directly to the lines going to the chinch plugs

it would be better do solder the cable direcly to the lemo plug pins i guess

has anyone done this here?

greetings

« Last Edit: 11 Feb 2016, 02:30 pm by phoner »

threadkiller

Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #1 on: 11 Feb 2016, 07:23 pm »
Hi!
While I admire your sense of adventure, I really don't see the point. I doubt you'll gain any sonic merits, and more importantly, you might introduce hum. Isn't there something else in your system you could spend time on to improve? Better rack, cartridge, cables, etc?
Be careful out there...

phoner

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Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #2 on: 17 Feb 2016, 08:12 am »
Nobody?

I find that strange because the MC generates a symmetric signal and that is a very useful thing as they also have a notoriously weak signal.
So i find it only natural to make use of that.


The connection to a symmetric male plug shoul be fairly easy:




The centerpins of the Chinch-connectors are the hot or + line which goes to Pin 2 on the XLR of the respective side.

The Sleeve of the Chinch is actually the - or cold side of the symmetric Signal which goes to Pin 3 on a XLR.

The Ground just stays where it is, i will connect it as it was before.

As far as i understand it i can even experiment with not connecting the ground at all.
The XLR in itself does not need a Zero connection as it is organised symmetric by crossreferencing (is this the right word?) the 0° and 180° Signal.

That leaves us with Pin 3 on the XLR plug. This one connects to the sleeve of the XLR cable an is connected ONLY ON PRE-SIDE.

Well, that should be it.


(And regarding the other things which threadkiller mentioned, i will make a seperate thread regarding my DIY projects)

Erocka2000

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Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #3 on: 17 Feb 2016, 02:10 pm »
I agree with Threadkiller, there is no reason to be doing this. 

mick wolfe

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Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #4 on: 17 Feb 2016, 03:54 pm »
I agree with Threadkiller, there is no reason to be doing this.

That makes three of us then.

phoner

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Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #5 on: 17 Feb 2016, 05:00 pm »
Those are great one sentence comments ....

What could be a reply that keeps that level of discoursive quality, let me think?

Enjoy yourselves and say no more, maybe?

Na, i am just making fun.

Enlighten us please if you care for any kind of discussion.

rob400

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Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #6 on: 17 Feb 2016, 05:11 pm »
I have to agree with the guys Phoner. What improvement do you feel could be gleaned from this modification? As Threadkiller pointed out hum is a potential result. As with most things Well Tempered the word according to Firebaugh is usually the last word in design....

phoner

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Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #7 on: 17 Feb 2016, 06:19 pm »
What i expect: 
doing this in the soon future and then evaluating the result along the aspect of my personal enjoyment ; - )

All i could say technically is what possibly everybody can say about symmetric signals if he reads wikipedia or any other source of technical knowledge
-> the main advantage as i understand is the improved noise resistance of symmetry

I will also repeat my previous arguments:
 the MC generates a symmetric signal and that is a very useful thing as they also have a notoriously weak signal.
The connection to a symmetric male plug shoul be fairly easy.

I find actual knowledge more enjoyable on my technical threads than mere speculation or value opinions.
but that is just my little me ...



(and if mr firebaugh wants to say something about this topic he is more than welcome to this thread 8))


rob400

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Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #8 on: 17 Feb 2016, 08:04 pm »
Can't see Bill taking an interest  :D

threadkiller

Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #9 on: 17 Feb 2016, 08:33 pm »
I can guarantee you that Mr F has never read this Circle, nor will.

Phoner, it's fine if you want to explore and try and reinvent. You certainly don't need our permission. Yet you seem to want our interest, and I think that's better served on a DIY circle.

I've modded and tweaked to last a lifetime. I'm done with it. It's a time waster and a navel gazing proposition. With usually unbeneficial results. But I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade.

Proper setup and matching is far far more the goal.
Carry on...

phoner

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Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #10 on: 19 Feb 2016, 06:20 pm »
You are right about the adjustment of a turntable you can possibly realise most of the potential sound through that

Another thing i wanted to say about the XLR modifikation,
Even if i get hum because of the symmetric connection ( i personaly cant see why)
 it does still make sense to solder the asymmetric cable directly to the lemo, imo
so i can still get a positive result if i want  to avoid a basically useless plug.

gagamut

Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #11 on: 22 Feb 2016, 06:16 am »
mine is take out the tonearm wire out of the DIN plug,and direct solder to the RCA plug

phoner

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Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #12 on: 4 May 2016, 06:12 pm »
Its done, finally...

I unsoldered the wires connecting the chinchplugs to the Lemo and then soldered the + and - wire of the XLR to the wires coming from the Lemo.



Sounds great, no Noise at all. I love it!

threadkiller

Re: symmetric connection on wta
« Reply #13 on: 5 May 2016, 04:16 am »
Good job, Phoner.
However, you still need to do the easiest and most important tweek... take that fingerlift off. I've never used one, and it sounds better without. Try it once and see...
Happy listening...