[Guy 13]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-buzz/car-nearly-ripped-in-half-in-epic-tow-truck-fail-164933062.html

[borism]

Hi Guy,
It turns out the car is a FIAT - an Italian make, but maybe they have an assembly plant in Russia.
Boris

[Folsom]

Typical. Youtube russian car crashes... Russia is utterly frightening on the road ways.

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy,
It turns out the car is a FIAT - an Italian make, but maybe they have an assembly plant in Russia.
Boris

Hi Boris,
I think the Lada is based on the FIAT design ?
The LADA in the province of Quebec
was a big failiure even at 5,000CND at the time.
Sorry to write that, since you are from Russian origin.

Guy 13

[Guy 13]

Typical. Youtube russian car crashes... Russia is utterly frightening on the road ways.

Hi Folsom,
I am always amazed at how many Youtube video
you can see about Russian car accident.

Guy 13

[londonbarn]

Yeah, their quality has always been suspect on just about everything except hmmmm  vodka?   If I was russian, I would just jump at the chance to be a submariner!!... 

[thunderbrick]

Yeah, their quality has always been suspect on just about everything except hmmmm  vodka?   If I was russian, I would just jump at the chance to be a submariner!!... 

 

[charmerci]

Hi Folsom,
I am always amazed at how many Youtube video
you can see about Russian car accident.

Guy 13

I talked with a guy who lived in Russia for several years and he said everyone there was crazy. I challenged him  on it - having met Russians in Europe - but he said the sane ones leave and was pretty adamant about it. 


 

 

[londonbarn]

yeeep, the corvette is going to lose... Why didnt anyone tell him....

I just came back from 7 years in Indonesia and a few years back, the russian plane maker Sukhoi was very hurriedly finishing their new SuperJet to sell to the international market.. (were hurting from sanctions)... I was very critical saying it was way too soon and you cant rush the testing process.. Well, they embarked on a southeast Asia sales tour

 with the plane.. Going to Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore and demonstrating the plane... Well, when they came to Indonesia, they took off from Jakarta with about 8 Indonesian flight attendants and the officials they were trying to impress enough to sell it to..........   AND..................  30 ish miles out of Jakarta, they flew it right into a MOUNTAIN!!!!!!   Needless to say, they didnt sell many planes on that trip.....

Not sure what their problem is, but they just seem so careless with VERY important things....

At an Indonesian airshow, a russian guy flew his little plane into the ground.. The conditions were quite windy, not to mention FOREIGN to him, but what the hey, lets go anyway!!!          I dont  know............

[Dieterle Tool]

I understand there are a lot of traffic videos coming out of Russia bc of so much corruption and lawlessness. Everyone drives with a dash cam rolling.

I want to so much believe that there is a scorched arm/hand sticking straight out of the back of that vette. 

[Johnny2Bad]

Hi Guy,
It turns out the car is a FIAT - an Italian make, but maybe they have an assembly plant in Russia.
Boris

The Russians have been making FIATs under license for almost 50 years ... a Lada is essentially a 1970's model Fiat 124, although with USSR-exclusive modifications.

Under "Vodka-Cola" (a reference to a pioneering trade deal whereby Coca Cola USA was given the exclusive right to market Russian Vodka in the US, in exchange for the opportunity to sell Coca-Cola within the USSR, and which formed a prototype under which subsequent Russian trade with the West was based) most trade with Soviet-era USSR was tied conditions a bit more complex than the relatively simple distribution or IP licenses typical in the West.

One complication, for example, was everything had to pass a Marxist "sniff test" where there was no obvious profit or interest payment involved. Basically, trading a $10,000 cat for two $5,000 dogs, rather than paying $20 for each dog if the dogs cost $0 to breed.

It was a preferred method of technology transfer for the Russians to obtain not just a licence (which is of dubious value, as the Russians would simply ignore IP rights if it suited them), but a complete manufacturing plant built by the Western partner.

Things have changed, of course, since the 1990's but deals to build the entire factory (rather than just obtaining the IP to a product) on Russian soil by a Western (or Chinese) partner via a Russia-XX Joint Venture is very common to this day. The car could easily be a Russian-built FIAT.

The Dash Cam popularity in Russia isn't necessarily due to any unusually bad driving so much as the Russian Insurance Industry and the Legal framework surrounding liability. Standard practice is they deny the claim to both parties, and challenge you to sue.

Because the former USSR had a different legal framework, Russian Tort Law is immature making the courts a poor option for redress. Video evidence ensures your claim is upheld and paid out.

[a.wayne]

The Lada platform is based on the 1966 fiat 124 ,  the power-plant and drive train is not FIAT ... all russky....

@Londonbarn, Good Sukhoi Story ,  I guess no one told the Egyptians, anyway,  what about  AirBus, whats their story , plenty to  tell there....



https://www.rt.com/business/331230-egypt-order-russian-sukhoi/

[Johnny2Bad]

The Lada platform is based on the 1970 fiat 124 ,  the power-plant and drive train is not FIAT ... all russky....

@Londonbarn, Good Sukhoi Story , what about  AirBus, whats their story ....

Not just the power train; the car is not a "real" 124 as sold by FIAT in Europe at the time; it has a number of Russian implemented modifications (or perhaps more properly, deviations) but it does have a 124 body and frame, plus the factory was built by FIAT.

I am suspicious of the Sukhoi story, but I'm too lazy to call on Snopes. Plus, it generally is Pilot Error that results in flying an aircraft into a mountain, which is common enough with western made aircraft and western-based airlines that I am not sure if there is a lesson there beyond what we already should know. Strangely, I know and had flown with a pilot (about 80 flights) who killed himself and his co-pilot (or the other way around) doing just that, ferrying an airplane across the Rockies.

I do have another one for you, though.

I hunted with the E8 (2nd in command) at [deleted] Air Force Base. The first time was shortly after the North Korean Mig-25 was flown by a defector to Japan. At the time (late 1980's) this was the first real glimpse of this particular top-line, Soviet era fighter jet.

Standard International Law is you return such equipment to the "owner", and the Japanese did just that (as did the Chinese, when an American plane ... I forget which model ... emergency landed in China a while ago). But they take their sweet time about it (as did the Chinese). Six months seems about the norm, and that's how long the Japanese kept the Mig.

Anyway, my friend had read all the intelligence from the Japanese on the aircraft. The Air Conditioning had failed in this particular unit, causing an unfounded rumour in early media reports that the Russian planes had no pilot comfort provisions (temperatures in the air can range well below freezing to very hot in-cabin). In fact examination by the Japanese (and some "visitors") revealed that the HVAC system is robust in these models, since cooling of the extensive vacuum-tube based electronics were part of it's design function.

The vacuum tube based electronics took up considerable space in contrast to western aircraft, but were robust and significantly more powerful than solid-state based western radar and radio systems. They also are immune to failure from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) waves that follow a nuclear detonation, in contrast to the Solid State electronics used in western aircraft at the time (they are more robust today).

Construction in a casual inspection was the butt of jokes by westerners in the few situations where they were viewable close up. It was explained to me that there were exposed rivets on the airframe that would never be considered acceptable on a western aircraft, for example. Yet the engines (and fuel capacity) were "twice as powerful as they needed to be" (his exact words) so that raw power compensated for the added drag. In fact virtually all Soviet-era fighter aircraft have a higher maximum airspeed than western equivalents.

Materials were also of a grade and machining a standard that would not pass muster in a western fighter jet, for example in the cockpit. Yet, where it mattered, the machining was state-of-the-art and the materials were robust ... excellent machining was evident on the extremely robust landing gear which was made with titanium components, and which was capable of unprepared field landing and takeoff ... western aircraft require a prepared landing field or highway; even carrier-capable western jets do not have as robust landing gear as the standard Russian fighter.

(Not part of this particular event, but after the Russians abandoned the Soviet system, one of the very first technologies sought by western military firms was the ejection seat used on Russian aircraft which was vastly superior in function, and pilot survivability, than what was used in our jets at the time. Virtually every fighter on Earth today uses a variant of the Russian system. Similarly, the Soviet era small nuclear plants used on their satellites and space vehicles were an early technology transfer to western space programs. Again, everyone uses a variant of the Soviet-era units today).

And so on. It served a purpose to mock the Soviets when they were the enemy, but reality is somewhat less clear cut, and in many ways they were the better engineers and there is no evidence their manufacturing ability was incapable of matching the best the west offered. Their resources were limited and compromise was necessary, but if they felt a need for quality, it was delivered, in spades.

The Russians cut corners where we would not, but when it mattered, they accepted no compromise. That is how a country can make a Lada in one factory and across the street make a GPS (-like) satellite system, and launch it without issues.

[Art_Chicago]

very interesting read, thanks!

[Guy 13]

Hi all,
I never tought my OP (original post) would bring so much interesting
subsequent posts.
Thanks to all.
 

Guy 13

[a.wayne]

Johnny2bad,

My jetjox stories mirrors your info on the MIG  and can concur mostly on what you say. Frankly, Russian aerospace  was second to none and privately we have always had a working relationship with them because of.

[Art_Chicago]

Hi all,
I never tought my OP (original post) would bring so much interesting
subsequent posts.
Thanks to all.
 

Guy 13

speaking of the OP-- the description of the video and the shape of the car clearly indicate that the car was made by FIAT, and it was not made in Russia... it is not a Lada 

seems like the front axle got stuck so deep that the country of origin would not make any difference to begin with.

[charmerci]

Hi all,
I never tought my OP (original post) would bring so much interesting
subsequent posts.
Thanks to all.
 

Guy 13

Well, don't hold on to that thought. You (and I both) know - that there can be great interest in something and then....... dead silence. Never to be mentioned again!

[londonbarn]

Johnny... Lets not get too carried away with your own bad self....  I was INDEED there when the Sukhoi jet flew into a "smallish" mountain near BOGOR outside of Jakarta... It WAS pilot incompetence, RUSSIAN that is.. Carelessness, lack of respect for the situation, (not to mention human lives)  etc are all Russian trademarks..  When they obtained the

 plane to make a Concord of their own, it broke up under the G forces in an attempt to restart the engines.. A British concord designer said that their "original" concord is designed to withstand those G forces..

Hence, BETTER quality WHEN NEEDED by the west...

The Kursk and no doubt others, when it "inevitably" went down, was rescued "too late" by the West who had the rescue capability..  The russians had no way to rescue their own sailors...

Chernobyl is quoted as saying...
"The Chernobyl accident in 1986 was the result of a FLAWED reactor DESIGN that was OPERATED with INADEQUATELY trained personnel."

Nuff said on that one....

Have you seen the MiG 29 and the latest sukhois??  Hmmm how they VERY much resemble our F14 and 15 designs we had many decades ago.. And their very latest Sukhoi 50...Hmmmm the photo from under the plane looks quite a bit like the F22 we had on the drawing boards 2 decades ago at least...

And if you want to.. just go take a look at the photos of the Sukhoi fighter jets from the 1960s up to now... You should be able to see a striking resemblance to our US fighter jets starting with the Crusader on up to today.. Yet, each suspiciously "similar" looking Russian plane came out years later each and everytime...

Interesting when you read about Chuck Yeagers report of when he had the chance to fly the MiG 15 from the Korean defector.. The pilots didnt even have "G" suits!!  They had no clue, and the usual "poor pilot comfort" as well as at low altitudes the electronics would get too hot and at higher altitudes would get too cold, the jet would shake on a dive  (couldnt handle the G forces)  Hmmmm, similar to the Concordsky etc etc...

Good excerpt here..." The Russians were desperate to get their hands on a F-86, and standing orders were issued to try to get one down without having it crash. They went so far as to take a group of test pilots to practice “boxing” in a F-86 in order to force him to land. This group, however, would not make the cut and did not get to perform this maneuver. Instead, a Russian pilot pulled his aircraft up to an F-86 and hit the F-86 behind the cockpit, damaging the J-47 engine and ejection seat. The American, 2nd Lt Bill Garrett, pointed his aircraft toward the Yellow Sea and struggled with her. "

This is how they got their technology in MOST cases... Innovation just was not the Russians strong suit.. Its impossible given their government philosophy of "closed borders" infrastucture and its uninspiring effects...

And as we all know , when you are always copying, you just cant make a better product than the original innovators... You lack the design intelligence to do so...

And all of this nonsense I hear about their use of vacuum tubes in their aircraft was for some ultra smart EMP resistant design.. You have to remember they had little money and just cannot be cutting edge (ie.. HUGELY EXPENSIVE) like the west can at the time, so they just went with what they knew and could make well.. So no cutting edge Semiconductor technology  was capable from them..  They HAD to resort to spying, stealing and copying to be able to keep up with the West...

Probably most companies today, reverse engineer products, but SOME have to be the true innovators and it USUALLY AINT the Russkies sorry to say...

Have you ever watched the BBC's Top Gear?? they did a HILARIOUS episode on Soviet era cars.. And WOW did they come up with some crazy designs and NONE of them had anything REMOTELY resembling QUALITY in any way...

A friend of mine who maintains British Airways aircraft and does sidework for other airlines on occasion, told me that at the time he would never fly on Aeroflot, Air Pakistan and Air India (AI was government owned at the time) because when he would take a look at what needed to be repaired, he would see that EVERYTHING needed to be replaced... haha

So, what I am finally getting at is NOT about what countries are better or worse or whatever... I am just trying to highlight the fact that the Russian "attitude" toward QUALITY and LIFESAVING technologies SEEM to be IGNORED.... So dont be thinking for 1 minute that Russky military technology was ever better than the West...

And as far as their landing gear... They had ALOT of BAD landing strips for their planes due to a huge country and NO money, so, sure, they needed to make very robust landing gears systems... Not a problem and not particularly difficult to do... The West had much better infrastructures and did not need to make such robust landing gear...

So... MY entire point is , when it comes to QUALITY WHEN IT MATTERS.... Dont look to the Russians.... period.... And by the way, Polish Vodka is better as well....

[londonbarn]

And please, This is not an argument BTW.... I am NOT trying to "ruffle" anyones feathers...  I just thought it amusing about Johnny's "suspicion" of my post...  hahaha...