Gustard X20?

PeteG · « **Reply #180 on:** 24 Apr 2016, 02:45 pm »

Quote from: sruffle on 24 Apr 2016, 01:23 pm

I have this DAC and sent it to Ric Schultz for the Level 1 mods. He has had it for a couple weeks now so I should be getting it back soon. I will post impressions of the upgrade and sound in comparison to my current NAD M51 DAC.

My system includes a MacMini running Audirvana Plus. At some point this Summer, I will try another type of server. A couple questions I have are:

1) Do users find a noticeable difference playing PCM versus DSD on this DAC?
2) To play DSD, do you need to download drivers on the DAC?

Listening to my X20 I do like to upsample everything to DSD128, using a U12 feeding the I2s input (HDMI) on the X20. Your Mac will not need a driver.

sruffle · « **Reply #181 on:** 24 Apr 2016, 11:56 pm »

Thanks for the info. One thing I may try first is to download some DSD files and play them through Audirvana using the U12 with the I2s input.

ted_b · « **Reply #182 on:** 25 Apr 2016, 12:05 am »

Just wanted to say what I told Randy: if you are going to use something like HQPlayer and upsample EVERYTHING to DSD512 then no need to be concerned about the non-standard pin/wiring on the HDMI/I2S port (and reducing your choices to Gustard's own fine DCC). As long as you don't play PCM through I2S then simply reverse your leads (any one of them, dac, preamp or speaker...I'd do DAC into preamp so other inputs would be non-reversed).

sruffle · « **Reply #183 on:** 25 Apr 2016, 12:41 am »

As mentioned earlier, I am a complete novice on DSD. However, it seems that getting a powerful machine to upsample to 512 might hold a lot of promise. My original plan was to streamline my 2009 MacMini setup to a NAS or the upcoming sonic transporter and using something like a Sonore microRendu (when available).

Upsa piling would require a lot more firepower than that. I am going to be interested to hear more impressions on DSD up-sampling with this DAC.

quadman · « **Reply #184 on:** 25 Apr 2016, 04:17 pm »

Quote from: sruffle on 25 Apr 2016, 12:41 am

As mentioned earlier, I am a complete novice on DSD. However, it seems that getting a powerful machine to upsample to 512 might hold a lot of promise. My original plan was to streamline my 2009 MacMini setup to a NAS or the upcoming sonic transporter and using something like a Sonore microRendu (when available).

Upsa piling would require a lot more firepower than that. I am going to be interested to hear more impressions on DSD up-sampling with this DAC.

My i7-4790 based windows 10 pro machine is using around 14% of the cpu when doing DSD128, an i5-based machine should be able to handle DSD128 albeit at a much higher CPU usage rate. Been a long time since I used Audirvana, can't you up sample to DSD with that? And for just PCM up sampling why are you using the u12? USB from the Mac to x20 can do all PCM rates, the u12 stock is a bottleneck and compromises the sound of the dac. I get it if you are trying to do DSD256 or 512 then the u12 is currently needed. But for your usage just run USB to dac with no u12. DSD is more analog like compared to PCM.

Also cannot recommend the UPtone regen enough it really helps both the M51 and x20.

sruffle · « **Reply #185 on:** 26 Apr 2016, 01:40 am »

Thanks for the comments. These are all good points. I am using the Regen and it is definitely of some help. The NAD is slightly better through the U12 than through a direct USB connection so that is why it is in the chain. When I get the Gustard back, I will have to test it with and without the U12. It would be great to get a component out of the chain.

I will have to explore DSD through Audirvana. I know it can play native DSD files but Indon't think it can upsample to DSD.

ACHiPo · « **Reply #186 on:** 26 Apr 2016, 02:34 am »

Quote from: quadman on 25 Apr 2016, 04:17 pm

My i7-4790 based windows 10 pro machine is using around 14% of the cpu when doing DSD128, an i5-based machine should be able to handle DSD128 albeit at a much higher CPU usage rate. Been a long time since I used Audirvana, can't you up sample to DSD with that? And for just PCM up sampling why are you using the u12? USB from the Mac to x20 can do all PCM rates, the u12 stock is a bottleneck and compromises the sound of the dac. I get it if you are trying to do DSD256 or 512 then the u12 is currently needed. But for your usage just run USB to dac with no u12. DSD is more analog like compared to PCM.

Also cannot recommend the UPtone regen enough it really helps both the M51 and x20.

The Uptone Amber seems to help a bit, although it's definitely just a "coloring within the lines" effect--no definable sonic change, just meatier. Think I may try out the Intona for giggles and grins, both alone and in conjunction with the Amber.

quadman · « **Reply #187 on:** 26 Apr 2016, 02:21 pm »

Quote from: ACHiPo on 26 Apr 2016, 02:34 am

The Uptone Amber seems to help a bit, although it's definitely just a "coloring within the lines" effect--no definable sonic change, just meatier. Think I may try out the Intona for giggles and grins, both alone and in conjunction with the Amber.

I believe you use the Aurrender, rather than PC and I would not expect as much of an impact as you would get going straight from PC to X20 with the regen.

ACHiPo · « **Reply #188 on:** 26 Apr 2016, 06:53 pm »

Quote from: quadman on 26 Apr 2016, 02:21 pm

I believe you use the Aurrender, rather than PC and I would not expect as much of an impact as you would get going straight from PC to X20 with the regen.

I'm a bit surprised (and skeptical) I hear any difference based on the Aurender's topology, plus the X20 is supposed to have improved jitter treatment on its input (I think).

restrav · « **Reply #189 on:** 26 Apr 2016, 07:11 pm »

Guys i did look at the specs on amazon and thee is also no spes on worthy audio website so my question is does X20U have femto clock? if so is there only one or one per channel?

aldcoll · « **Reply #190 on:** 26 Apr 2016, 08:10 pm »

Here is the most info from the web. Possibly the manufacturer?

The manual link has never worked for me. I did manage to get a PDF from them. IF you send me a email I will pass it along.

Alan

http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-dac-x20-super-ultimate-2-x-es9018-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html#comment_html

PeteG · « **Reply #191 on:** 27 Apr 2016, 12:55 am »

Will be doing most of the level I mods this coming weekend, also the Intona industrial isolator will be here . I will start going directly to the X20u, till I'm able to do DSD256/512. Wet and cold weekend so hopefully a nice long listening session.

rklein · « **Reply #192 on:** 29 Apr 2016, 06:09 pm »

So I am planning to do all (most

) of the Level 1 mods that Ric suggests.

Do you just wrap the copper foil around the entire fuse and then pop it back in?

Thanks

Randy

quadman · « **Reply #193 on:** 29 Apr 2016, 06:18 pm »

yes, wrap the whole fuse is good, don't over lap as it may be to big for holder. I cut a piece 19mm x 15mm (fuse is 20mm long and circumference is 15.7mm). Also clean the copper a bit with dexoit or similar if you have before applying.

rklein · « **Reply #194 on:** 29 Apr 2016, 06:35 pm »

Quote from: quadman on 29 Apr 2016, 06:18 pm

yes, wrap the whole fuse is good, don't over lap as it may be to big for holder. I cut a piece 19mm x 15mm (fuse is 20mm long and circumference is 15.7mm). Also clean the copper a bit with dexoit or similar if you have before applying.

Thanks!

PeteG · « **Reply #195 on:** 29 Apr 2016, 06:37 pm »

Got the Intona in from Germany hooked it up to the USB of the X20u and it communicates beautifully, matter of fact when I click on a song it starts quicker than before. As far as SQ I will let it burn-in awhile but very positive in the short time it's been in the system, especially very subtle notes are now very clean/clear/precise.
I did most of the mods, didn't wrap the fuse just put in a HiFi Supreme fuse. Found some nylon nut & bolts at Lowes. I'm very happy with the sound so far, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this dac.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #196 on:** 29 Apr 2016, 07:11 pm »

Hopefully you put two thicknesses of cardboard underneath the trannies.....to me gives the best sound. Of course, you make cardboard donuts so the chassis nipples are still clear in center. Did you remove all AC connectors and switches and AC filter?.....and twist wires?

quadman · « **Reply #197 on:** 29 Apr 2016, 07:17 pm »

Quote from: PeteG on 29 Apr 2016, 06:37 pm

Got the Intona in from Germany hooked it up to the USB of the X20u and it communicates beautifully, matter of fact when I click on a song it starts quicker than before. As far as SQ I will let it burn-in awhile but very positive in the short time it's been in the system, especially very subtle notes are now very clean/clear/precise.
I did most of the mods, didn't wrap the fuse just put in a HiFi Supreme fuse. Found some nylon nut & bolts at Lowes. I'm very happy with the sound so far, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this dac.

If it works like the Regen then it helps a lot. So what did you do for the mods, audiophile fuse, twist AC wires, and remove steel bolts for tranny anything else?

I have my buddies stock Gustard burring in since last Friday, Wed. night it had over 120 hours on it, I listened for 1 1/2 hours then switched to my level 1 x20u. Stock the x20 is really good and I was really enjoying the music, thinking, gee how much better are the mods. Then after switch I played same songs at same level, foolish me. Modded is another level, much more analog like, more transparent, bigger sound stage that involves you more in the music. I was grinning ear to ear thinking about the amazing level this dac has reached.

PeteG · « **Reply #198 on:** 29 Apr 2016, 07:22 pm »

I put wood under the transformers/nylon nuts & bolts and twisted all wires, I did not remove AC connectors, switch or filter.

ACHiPo · « **Reply #199 on:** 29 Apr 2016, 07:41 pm »

Quote from: PeteG on 29 Apr 2016, 07:22 pm

I put wood under the transformers/nylon nuts & bolts and twisted all wires, I did not remove AC connectors, switch or filter.

That's basically the same level of mods I did (used cardboard rather than wood), plus the TWL American Digital PC. I'm happy with how things sound, although I am toying with the idea of adding an Intona box before the USB cable with the Regen right before the X20U just for kicks.