Spatial M3 vs M4: can anyone compare these two?

zybar · « **Reply #20 on:** 8 Feb 2016, 10:42 pm »

Quote from: Spatial Computer on 4 Feb 2016, 08:02 pm

I have not had a chance to try the Zero transformers. I understand they can work wonders with OTL amps driving low impedance loads. Maybe someone could chime in that has tried them.

They absolutely do work and can make OTL amps really sing.

I can't remember if I ever tried my old Atma-Sphere amps + the Zeros with the Emerald Physics speakers...I will need to search here and on a few other forums to see if I commented on that combo.

George

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #21 on:** 9 Feb 2016, 01:39 am »

They do work wonders and improve the sound when needed.

Rocket_Ronny

Zoonhollis · « **Reply #22 on:** 8 Jun 2016, 03:03 pm »

Clayton,

I am considering these speakers but have a question first about gain. I know the M3's are very efficient and require only moderate power to drive them.

I just unloaded a vintage pair of Von Schweikert VR-4's driven by two Emotiva XPA-1 monoblocks, which I opted to attenuate with a passive pre in order to get a handle on the abundance of gain. My question is, do you think this is too much power for the M3's (some might insist there's no such thing), or would my setup (with the attenuation at two sources via the pre) be okay for these speakers? My point is, I don't want to have to consider new amplification if I don't have to.

Thanks

mick wolfe · « **Reply #23 on:** 9 Jun 2016, 08:30 pm »

Clayton regularly demonstrates with Red Dragon amps at 500 watts per channel. I think you'll be fine. Near unlimited amp options with the Spatial's.

TomS · « **Reply #24 on:** 9 Jun 2016, 08:49 pm »

The M3/4 use pro drivers and can take as much power as you can stand. A bigger consideration is the gain and noise profile since the speakers are quite efficient. A preamp/amp that has any audible background noise on typical 86-88db box speakers will be quite a bit noisier on these.

anibal1966 · « **Reply #25 on:** 11 Jun 2016, 07:59 am »

How do the Spatials 4 perform at low SPL?
I do a lot of late night listening, with appropriate music, in a condo.
I am looking for speakers whose sound qualities persist at low SPL. It is one of the few defects of my otherwise lovely JM Reynauds.

zybar · « **Reply #26 on:** 11 Jun 2016, 11:53 am »

Quote from: anibal1966 on 11 Jun 2016, 07:59 am

How do the Spatials 4 perform at low SPL?
I do a lot of late night listening, with appropriate music, in a condo.
I am looking for speakers whose sound qualities persist at low SPL. It is one of the few defects of my otherwise lovely JM Reynauds.

Not sure about the 4's, but the M3's sound good at low, med, and high SPL's.

I did a little low level listening last night and female voices sounded very seductive and while guitar and percussion instruments retained their texture and speed.

George

md92468 · « **Reply #27 on:** 11 Jun 2016, 12:59 pm »

Quote from: anibal1966 on 11 Jun 2016, 07:59 am

How do the Spatials 4 perform at low SPL?
I do a lot of late night listening, with appropriate music, in a condo.
I am looking for speakers whose sound qualities persist at low SPL. It is one of the few defects of my otherwise lovely JM Reynauds.

I switched to M4s for this exact reason (living in an NYC apartment) and couldn't be happier. Much easier on the downstairs neighbors, too, because OB bass doesn't load the room the same way a boxed speaker does. I had a pair of JM Duets (now called Bliss) a few years ago... Wonderful speakers, but I found they didn't really get going until mid volume. Not so with the M4s, which are also much easier to drive. YMMV, of course, but with a generous return policy well worth the risk, IMO.

jtwrace · « **Reply #28 on:** 11 Jun 2016, 01:16 pm »

I find that my M3's sound great at low volume. Sometimes I just want low volume music playing as my head is just tired. So rather then silence I choose music at very low volume. Sounds great!

60 day trial...

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #29 on:** 11 Jun 2016, 05:43 pm »

Quote from: anibal1966 on 11 Jun 2016, 07:59 am

How do the Spatials 4 perform at low SPL?
I do a lot of late night listening, with appropriate music, in a condo.

OB bass doesn't load the room the same way boxed bass does, which allows you to get away with higher SPLs.

anibal1966 · « **Reply #30 on:** 12 Jun 2016, 02:14 pm »

Thank you all, very useful answers. I had considered building a simple, full-range OB, but after what I have read, the Spatial looks a better option.

Time to check for the distributors in Europe.

jtwrace · « **Reply #31 on:** 12 Jun 2016, 02:24 pm »

Quote from: anibal1966 on 12 Jun 2016, 02:14 pm

Thank you all, very useful answers. I had considered building a simple, full-range OB, but after what I have read, the Spatial looks a better option.

Time to check for the distributors in Europe.

If you don't get answers that suite you email Clayton Shaw of Spatial. He's extremely responsive and helpful.

thetubeguy1954 · « **Reply #32 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 04:32 pm »

Quote from: Spatial Computer on 3 Feb 2016, 11:58 pm

No plans to do a high impedance version. Maybe in the future. We have a lot of users with SETs that work great with the current models using the 4Ω output taps.

Clayton

Hi Clayton and to everyone else reading this!

I'm 26 days into my 60 day in-home trail period with a pair of the M3 speakers. I have a 40W/ch., Mastersound Reference 845, integrated, SET amp that I'm using Clayton's M3 speakers with. My audio room is 15.5' x 12.5'. However I have a fairly open home so there is no wall separating the audio room on the left side from the 14.5' x 12.5' kitchen. Which in turn has only about a 1/4 wall on the left side that separates it from 9' x 12.5' dining room. I can tell you that even though I know they're not yet completely broken-in yet, I hear very little differences in songs played on my M3's vs my friend's M2's and what differences that are heard can easily be chalked up to differences in our rooms and audio systems.

These M3 speakers are amazing. I play everything from solo piano works, to mostly female jazz singers and smooth jazz to Prog-rock and these speakers play them all equally well! I've had friends over from both the Central Florida Audio Society and the Space Coast Audio Society and all have stated this is the best my system has ever sounded ---{the M3's replaced Sachiko double-back-loaded horns, with Rispoli modified Dayton PS220-8 drivers and Fostex T900a tweeters crossed in at 8KHz}--- many say that the M3's sound like a pair of 94dB sensitive electrostatics with great dynamics & transients and have extended highs and bass! I tried both the 8 ohm and 4 ohm taps on my amp and the 4 ohm taps definitely sounded the best.

I can tell anyone even considering the M4 or M3 speakers to go for it. They're everything you'll hope they'll be. If you can afford it go for the M3's I'm very happy I did. The only caveat with these speakers is they definitely need to break-in. Straight out of the box there's little bass, a somewhat thin midrange and a tweeter that screams and squawks. After 100 hrs. they start balancing out and from that point on only get better and better. I honestly believe ---{although I haven't done an actual comparison}--- that if placed behind a screen so that no one could see the speakers, the M3 speakers would hold their own against a pair of ESL costing much more and in many cases the M3s would be the speaker preferred!

This is just the ramblings of an estatic M3 owner...

Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)

zybar · « **Reply #33 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 09:07 pm »

Great write up Tom.

I have had mine for a few weeks and have around 200 hrs on mine.

This week I have been playing with placement and as Clayton and others have stated, an inch or two makes a difference!!

I have been moving the speakers closer to the front wall (right now they are 54") and I like how it improves the lower midrange and bottom octaves.

I am also playing with toe-in so that I maximize the soundstage width and depth. Right now I have the middle of the woofers pointed at my shoulders and crossing behind me. I like this better than having the woofers pointed directly at my head.

I promised a write up on the M3's and I have one partially written. I'll try and get that finished by the end of the weekend.

George

George

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #34 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 11:22 pm »

What I would like to know is which one images batter. I would think the M4s due to the smaller drivers and baffle area. Anyone know?

Rocket Ronny

Rich48 · « **Reply #35 on:** 2 Jul 2016, 07:35 pm »

I have DIY OB's similar in looks and size to the M4's. I found that I get much better imaging by having quadratic defuser's behind the speakers on the front wall. The defuser's are against the wall and the speakers are about 24" out from them.

genjamon · « **Reply #36 on:** 3 Jul 2016, 12:08 am »

Quote from: Rocket_Ronny on 16 Jun 2016, 11:22 pm

What I would like to know is which one images batter. I would think the M4s due to the smaller drivers and baffle area. Anyone know?

Rocket Ronny

I owned M1's for a while, and had borrowed a buddy's M2's before purchasing. I can't say for certain, not having compared side by side, but my gut says your thinking could be right on. But it's tradeoffs. The M1 has a lot fuller and larger sound than the M2. Depends on size of room and other system synergies and personal preferences which might be more important for you. I'd say for almost everyone, M3 should be the better overall speaker. Those with really small rooms and who have to sit very near field, maybe the M4 would be superior.

dspringham · « **Reply #37 on:** 4 Jul 2016, 11:41 pm »

Regarding the design of these two models and more specifically relating to the M4 (which has less bass extension), is there a negative effect associated with running a conventional sealed sub to augment the low bass? Since the quality of OB bass is said to be unique due to the absence of an enclosure, is this quality compromised in anyway by supplementation with an external sub (ie defeating the purpose of the OB design re: bass response)?

genjamon · « **Reply #38 on:** 4 Jul 2016, 11:48 pm »

I had a very hard time integrating a sub with the M1's in my room, but no trouble integrating one with the M2 during my weekend audition. The overlapping frequencies were a problem with the M1. With M2 I set the crossover for the sub low enough to just add where the M2's left off. This worked well for he weekend, but have no idea about long term listening pleasure and ultimately dialog in the system. And of course, YMMV in preferences and listening room setup.

JackD · « **Reply #39 on:** 5 Jul 2016, 12:55 am »

I don't have any problems integrating the M3 Turbo S and the ACI Quake XL's but I only have the ACI's crossing over at 35 HZ. If I tried to go much higher there might be a problem but I haven't tried.