OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs

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Vedder323

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Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #100 on: 6 Jun 2016, 12:56 pm »
Bonkers Jay! Love them!  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Peter J

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Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #101 on: 7 Jun 2016, 02:04 am »
Lookin' good, Jay. I'll bet that's an even prettier color up close and personal. I'm a sucker for purple.

You gonna grill 'em? Might look nice in something like brown or dark beige or even off white if you dig the contrast.

Dang, all these open baffle subs and I have yet to hear one...guess I'm in the driver's seat to change that, huh?


Captainhemo

Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #102 on: 7 Jun 2016, 02:13 am »
Thanks for the comments  guys.

Peter,  yeah,  I've got   frames made for both front  and rear but think I'm only going to  go with the fronts for now. Using the standard inlaid grills for the flat pack I'm cutting.
I like your idea of the contrast... going to think on that   for a bit.

You  are in for such a treat  when you  get your subs up and running,  there will be no going back

Michael,  there'll be a pair  with your name on them  waiting for you  :wink:
As I've mntioned before,  looking forward to seeing   you and Melody  again soon :beer:

jay

gregfisk

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Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #103 on: 7 Jun 2016, 03:59 am »
Thanks for the comments  guys.

Peter,  yeah,  I've got   frames made for both front  and rear but think I'm only going to  go with the fronts for now. Using the standard inlaid grills for the flat pack I'm cutting.
I like your idea of the contrast... going to think on that   for a bit.

You  are in for such a treat  when you  get your subs up and running,  there will be no going back

Michael,  there'll be a pair  with your name on them  waiting for you  :wink:
As I've mntioned before,  looking forward to seeing   you and Melody  again soon :beer:

jay

Hey Jay,

Michael reached out to me since he won't be too far from you here in Seattle. I don't have your triple OB subs but I do have my Super Vs and a decent listening room/guest house. I don't think I told Michael that you and I PM as well, he was very helpful with his observations of the Ida-8 and some other observations he's made with different amps. Michael, you would be able to tell me the difference in sound from Jay's new speakers and my Super V's. I would love to hear the ida-8 in my system and my wife Tracey would be happy to entertain if the ladies get bored with our obsession and want to do something else. 

Captainhemo

Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #104 on: 7 Jun 2016, 04:24 am »
Michael, you would be able to tell me the difference in sound from Jay's new speakers and my Super V's. I would love to hear the ida-8 in my system and my wife Tracey would be happy to entertain if the ladies get bored with our obsession and want to do something else.

Greg. upi  are  more than welcome to join us this year, I don' thae a guest house to put you  guys up in,  but  we had  a good time last year and  I'm sure we will again thise year with lots of new stuff to listen to.  don MAY  have his new K&K  monos and  possibly a big pair of speakers ,  my system  has changed  dramatically since  Michaels last visit too.

If the timing doesn't work,  you're more than welcome anytime   :) 

jay

Captainhemo

Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #105 on: 8 Jun 2016, 01:22 am »
A couple more pics after  drivers, wiring, and no rez



I meant to drill 1" holes  in the side panels for a female spectron connector, was going to make a cable terminated with  male ends to go between sub and amp box..... somehow, I  forgot to drill the darn holes and I'm too scared to run a 1" bit thought the paint  :duh:
I just left a lead off the back I can connect to the amp box... if I get brave, I'll drill the holes and add the extra female connectors on  the cabinets.  Still have to run out and pick up the  amp boxes,  used a couple of the  boxes  offered with the sub kits  (ealier in this thread)




Tried to get a decent close up with the sun hitting the  top edge of the cabinet this am, when the sun hits, there is suddenly  all kinds of metallic that yo udon't see otherwise


No sign of he cabinets tipping over backwards with all the  drivers facing forwards... thankfully  8)

jay

mlundy57

Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #106 on: 8 Jun 2016, 01:53 am »
Beautiful!!

That color reminds me of one of my old bikes. Prettiest purple I'd seen. Anywhere from metallic purple to black depending on how the light hit it.




Mike

gregfisk

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Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #107 on: 8 Jun 2016, 02:38 am »
Jay,

Those look really nice, My Super V's are kind of opposite in that they look very black until you put a lot of light on them and then a hint of purple comes out with all the metallic.

I really do like the woofers all going in one direction, that's why even thou I don't like speaker grills I keep mine on. Otherwise I would just leave the grills off as I think it sound a bit better. BTW, I don't have any feet on them that are past the normal width side to side and front to back and they are rock solid on my carpet

Captainhemo

Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #108 on: 20 Jun 2016, 03:34 pm »
What is the difference between driver orientation -- same direction vs. opposite, out of phase?? Any sonic differences? Pros and cons?

Well,  with  the one driver facing rearwards in either a  2 or 3 driver setup, yo uget a more even distribution of the weight.   That last pair I built, I  faced them all forwards  out of curiosity.   They  are not going tip over on you unless someone plows into one, and in that case, the  tower with the one reversed drive may also go over  :cry:

Now, I wouldn't have expected any sonic difference  but, using the  same  amps and the same drivers that were in another pair of triples I had been using, I've had to reduce the  gain onthe amps by 3 or 4 clicks and the bass seems to be even cleaner/tighter with more  ooomph behind it. I  am pretty surprised at this and was not the only one to notice the change.
I've mentioned it to Danny and beleive he will try his next set like this to see if he gets similar results

jay

I have been mentioning the reverse directions and saying this was "not" the thing to do.  You have drivers with their acoustic centers not together and facing different directions......always seemed silly to me.....just to get weight distribution centered.  I am glad someone finally actually listened.  My thoughts are confirmed.  When I used two of them they were on an open baffle both the same way.  My friend in Oregon has 3 on an open baffle all facing forward with great results.  See here:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142235.0   This way you can align the voice coils with your main speakers if you like as well.  This is more important the higher you xover (like with wedgies, etc.).

Hey Ric,
yeah, I get all that, just wasn't  sure  at those frequencies  (my subs are crossed at approx 70Hz), there would be any noticable benefit as the voice coil of the  reversed driver is inches ,< 1', off the center of those on the  forward facing  woofers. The full wave at 70 Hz is roughtly 16'
In  my particular case, the  cabinet is sloped  so I'm still not pefectly aligned, about 1.5" of from the top voice coil to the bottom one.

As mentined,  I, as well as others, have noticed a difference

jay

Ric Schultz

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Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #109 on: 20 Jun 2016, 06:31 pm »
Yes, of course, it is better to have all the drivers in the same direction.  It is even more important with those with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthorne open baffle speakers, etc. that cross over higher in frequency.  And just as important in these same speakers would be to physically align the voice coils of the main speakers to the woofers.  By having both (or all three) woofs all facing forward and physically aligned with the main speakers the sound will be tremendously better.  Also having no H-frames but using straight baffles or U-frames would also make the sound better.  Why would you want the lower midrange to come out of some square tubes? Serious resonance problems there.  If you cross the woofers in at 70 or below then the H-frame is probably doing no damage.....but above that frequency?  You have to be kidding!!!!!!  Seriously bad!!!!  You guys with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthornes...need to turn off the upper drivers and listen to the woofers by themselves....you will hear voices, all kinds of midrange sounds....these things are only crossed over at 12 db per octave.....they go way up in the lower midrange.........the speakers need to be open to blend perfectly with the higher frequency drivers....not stuffed back in square tubes.  Think about it.  Try it!!!!!!!!  I would never ever use H-frames above 70hz....never.  And having the drivers face different directions....this is just plain wrong.  And every speaker I have ever built sounds best with the woofers and the upper drivers physically voice coil aligned.

corndog71

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Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #110 on: 20 Jun 2016, 07:31 pm »
Great.  Now I need another pair of $$$ cabinets.  :duh:

HAL

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Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #111 on: 20 Jun 2016, 08:18 pm »
The opposing style servo subs work well up to the 150Hz cutoff I use them in the 6x12's.  No need for new cabinets.  I compared them to the 3x8 U frames and the H-frame opposing setup sound great.

YMMV.

Ric Schultz

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Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #112 on: 20 Jun 2016, 09:10 pm »
YMWV (Your mileage will vary).  Hal's system is nothing like anyone else's here nor will it ever be anything like what you are using.  He has digital eq., op amp amps for each driver, wires all over the floor.....stuff everywhere and changing daily.  The only true pure A/B was done by Jay....he got more output and better sound by having them all go forward (crossed over at 70Hz!!!!).  Please, try this yourself.  You are the only one that can know the truth.  As more and more people do pure A/Bs in the same system we will all know the truth.

corndog71

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Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #113 on: 20 Jun 2016, 09:26 pm »
Unfortunately my woofer holes were rounded on opposing sides so I can't just flip one around.  I'm still considering another pair of 16 Ohm drivers.  Maybe Jay can cut me 6 individual cubes.  :wink:  Anyone want a pair of dual cabinets?

mlundy57

Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #114 on: 20 Jun 2016, 09:29 pm »
Great.  Now I need another pair of $$$ cabinets.  :duh:

My 3x8 H-Frames with the center driver reversed sound awfully good also and there were a lot of folks at LASF last year that thought so as well. I could flip the center driver around and run some new wiring (I wouldn't mess with the original wiring) so they would all be in phase then see what it sounds like. That will have to wait until I have some spare time though.

If I were to move the Wedgies far enough back so that the voice coils physically aligned with the sub drivers this would put the the bottom LGK 1/2" above the top of the sub cabinet. It seems this would cause a floor bounce effect with the top of the sub cabinet acting as the floor. To prevent this type of reflection I line the front of the Wedgies up with the front of the sub cabinet.

Am I incorrect in my thinking about a floor bounce effect? If not, which would be more detrimental to the sound floor bounce reflections or not having the drivers physically aligned?

Mike


Captainhemo

Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #115 on: 20 Jun 2016, 09:39 pm »
I never had any issues or complaints about the bass with either my duals  or  previous triples with one driver reversed, they sound  fantastic... if you go read any of my build threads  on the subs, i was always  MORE than  thrilled.I'm just saying,  having made this pair with all  3 facing in the same dircetion,  I do hear an improvement

I definitely wouldn't be rushing out to buy or build new cabinets

jay

Early B.

Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #116 on: 20 Jun 2016, 10:05 pm »
Nevermind.

Ric Schultz

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Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #117 on: 20 Jun 2016, 11:13 pm »
Mike, Just put some thick felt on the top of the woof/sub so the mid/highs do not bounce off it.  I have been doing this for years.  Please try physical voice coil alignment once you have all the woofs going forward.

Is good enough actually good enough?  Better is better.  Do you want better, tighter fuller bass, better lower midrange purity and fullness and better integration with the mids and highs?  If you do, you will try these things.  If you are satisfied with it the way it is, then you are not an audiophile.....he he....My definition of an audiophile is: "Someone who is never satisfied with his stereo".  I mean, why are you reading this instead of listening?.....it's because you want better sound......your an addict....he he.  Well, this is one good fix.....and it is not expensive.

Early B.

Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #118 on: 20 Jun 2016, 11:59 pm »
Unfortunately my woofer holes were rounded on opposing sides so I can't just flip one around.

Similar issue here. I'd need new cabinets just to flip the woofer.

mlundy57

Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
« Reply #119 on: 21 Jun 2016, 12:19 am »
Where can you get thick felt? The only thing I have been able to find around here is the thin stuff they sell in the fabric stores.

Mike