How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms

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Freo-1

Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #20 on: 11 Dec 2015, 11:27 pm »
Thank you. Indeed it does sound excellent and is quite simple to set up, once leveled thoroughly. I use a Soundsmith Hyperion 2 cart and Vinnie Rossi LIO phono module, all providing great synergy.

Unlike other air bearing arms, this one uses very low pressure, so there is no noise from air flowing. I had an ET2 long ago and was constantly fiddling with pump pressure, air modulation, etc. This one has none of those issues at all.

Good to hear.  Makes enjoying the music much easier.

jtsnead

Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #21 on: 12 Dec 2015, 12:06 am »
Agreed I have owned this arm from the first version with the same pump and home made surge tank it just works well

jtsnead

Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #22 on: 12 Dec 2015, 12:11 am »
The tank made out of 4 inch pvc filled with aquarium filter




PDR

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Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #23 on: 12 Dec 2015, 01:06 am »
PDR built one. 
Maybe he'll chime in?

Well, I've built a few mechanical LT arms.....but never an air bearing type.

Like the slate plinth pictured....in the middle of huge 2 piece project myself

simoon

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Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #24 on: 12 Dec 2015, 02:10 am »
I am highly considering getting an Advanced Analog MG-1.

http://adanalog.com/

They start at $600, and go up to $1200, depending on the options you get with it.

A pump is about $100, a bit more to DIY a surge tank.

Hell, it even comes with a built in digital VTA gauge included.

They seem to get nothing but positive reviews on various forums.



lowtech

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Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #25 on: 12 Dec 2015, 05:15 am »
Not much talk about them because those who own them are busy listening to them.


G Georgopoulos

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Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #26 on: 12 Dec 2015, 06:38 am »
more complex mechanisms involved,i like traditional simpler tonearms... :green:

Johnny2Bad

Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #27 on: 12 Dec 2015, 09:41 am »
The problem with the linear tracking tonearms is that they don't really solve the issue they claim to solve. Combine that with increased complexity, the difficulty in managing tonearm resonances with the complex system versus the relative simplicity of the fixed pivot alternative ... it ends up being one of those "hard to remember the plan was to drain the swamp when you're knee-deep in alligators" kind of thing.

The linear tracking motor is driving the cutter head, because it has to ... things like groove width and other disk geometry issues can't be solved another way. For playback, you have a choice, though.

In my experience, a linear tracking tonearm is never truly linear ... it has to follow the groove in the end, regardless. How it does that is basically via some kind of servo system that waits for the arm to go out of linear tracking, as a signal to move toward the inner grooves. So, first problem, is decide how "un-linear" your "linear tracking tonearm" will be ... how "wrong" can it be before the arm decides to move a little bit. And how much is "a little bit" ... what error are you tolerating? Is it worse, or better, than a single pivot tonearm's geometry? And so on.

The short answer in my opinion is it's a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist, and the solution is worse than the problem itself. Others may differ, but I will say I am familiar with the RABCO, the Technics models, the various B&O's, and the Revox.

I prefer the single pivot arms. However, if you know someone who wants an elegant, wife / decor-friendly vinyl solution, and doesn't want to deal with *any* tonearm handling at all ... a used Technics linear tracker is an elegant solution to recommend, they are available at a reasonable cost used these days as well. The others (remember, in my opinion) are strictly hobby units that are either unreliable, too expensive to keep running, or too expensive, period.

BE SURE it works, though. Once broken (and all linear-trackers are prone to failure) they are extremely difficult to troubleshoot and the repair is not easier than the diagnosis.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to hear some of the 21st Century answers to the Linear Tracking question(s), it may well be the serious modern Linear Trackers have a deserved place in a HiFi System. I tend to draw a line at around $2000 for turntables; spend more than that and you are in a place where any identifiable problems in playback should be very competently addressed. So maybe if the opportunity arises, I could learn something. One thing about this hobby is, sooner or later, problems do get addressed.

Kenneth Patchen

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Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #28 on: 12 Dec 2015, 01:38 pm »
Slightly off topic, I have a younger friend who raves about his Mitsubshi LT30 which I must admit sounds awfully nice and which he claims he'll never sell. He's had several nice tables and currently a VPI Scout has taken up residency in his second system. He moved the Mitsubishi into his main rig because his then fiancé, who liked to enjoy "a beverage or two" and would then "get all dancy", was mangling the Scout. I had the pleasure of observing this more than a few times. So, the fiancé-proof Mitsubishi, which he has has come to love, remains in his main system but the fiancé is gone. She sure could dance though

thunderbrick

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Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #29 on: 12 Dec 2015, 06:20 pm »
Anybody make one that doesn't look like a component on a butter churn?

Doc

Got an ET2 arm on my SOTA Sapphire.  Elegant, simple and sounds great!  :thumb:

simoon

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Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #30 on: 12 Dec 2015, 09:22 pm »
In my experience, a linear tracking tonearm is never truly linear ... it has to follow the groove in the end, regardless. How it does that is basically via some kind of servo system that waits for the arm to go out of linear tracking, as a signal to move toward the inner grooves. So, first problem, is decide how "un-linear" your "linear tracking tonearm" will be ... how "wrong" can it be before the arm decides to move a little bit. And how much is "a little bit" ... what error are you tolerating? Is it worse, or better, than a single pivot tonearm's geometry? And so on

None of the linear tracking arms mentioned in this thread (Clearaudio, Kuzma, Terminator, Advanced Analog), use any sort of motor to drive the arm across the platter.

They are air bearing arms, that are just as 'passive' as pivotal arms. There is no problem with the servo constantly having to correct, because there isn't any. None of the 'wrong' attributes you claim servo arms have, pertain to the arms in this thread.

They are always closer to being optimal than pivotal arms across the entire record, not just 2 null points.

ACHiPo

Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #31 on: 12 Dec 2015, 10:51 pm »
None of the linear tracking arms mentioned in this thread (Clearaudio, Kuzma, Terminator, Advanced Analog), use any sort of motor to drive the arm across the platter.

They are air bearing arms, that are just as 'passive' as pivotal arms. There is no problem with the servo constantly having to correct, because there isn't any. None of the 'wrong' attributes you claim servo arms have, pertain to the arms in this thread.
I was thinking the same thing, but then I got to thinking about the motion and forces at play with an air bearing linear arm and how they compare to the forces on a pivotal arm.  Then I lost interest (oh look, a squirrel!) :lol:

I'm still thinking a good ~0 friction linear arm is going to have superior groove distortion performance.  I'm not at all sure whether there are other aspects (e.g. lateral compliance, inertia) that make things worse.  And I still want to try a Terminator or ET-2.

Johnny2Bad

Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #32 on: 13 Dec 2015, 04:44 am »
None of the linear tracking arms mentioned in this thread (Clearaudio, Kuzma, Terminator, Advanced Analog), use any sort of motor to drive the arm across the platter.


None? That's funny, I could have sworn the RABCO was mentioned in this thread.

JLM

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Re: How come nobody talks about linear tracking tonearms
« Reply #33 on: 13 Dec 2015, 12:37 pm »
Got out of vinyl after literally dropping my TT in '83, but I recall the HK ST-6 (sort of a klutzy solution) and my roommate's more expensive B&O 4000 (a much more elegant solution but tied into the dry sounding B&O cartridges).  Just spoke briefly with a guy at an audio club meeting yesterday who knew someone who had published an AES paper on the evils of pivoting tonearms decades ago.

30+ years removed I'm amazed at the exotic home-brew collections of gear such as ultrasonic cleaners, $200,000 TT's, and various tonearm contraptions  that make up "modern" vinyl playback.