DAC-9

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reillyzing

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #120 on: 1 Jul 2016, 02:26 am »
I would think in your situation I would look at the DAC-9 and the ST-10. The DAC would be more friendly to your music choice paired with the superior amp.
Thanks..Any thoughts on the MCH-K38 amp with its tubey sound, paired with a DAC-10?

JackD

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #121 on: 1 Jul 2016, 03:07 am »
Based on my experience with the M3 Turbo S's, you don't really need the "tubey" voicing of the STA-9 or the the MCH.  I love the sound of the Spatials with the 10 series combo with mine, but from another thread if you are trying to account for the less than stellar recording efforts of 60-70's rock I would try the DAC-9 and the ST-10. I tried my Spatials with two different tube amps and it wasn't for me.  I have tried them with six different amps and the best amp for me so far is the ST-10. So I would buy an ST-10 and then if you want the benefit of the 30 day return policy and you can't get one of the other dealers to do it then try the DAC-9 from Audio Advisor and if it doesn't work out swap it for a DAC-10.

reillyzing

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #122 on: 1 Jul 2016, 03:15 am »
Based on my experience with the M3 Turbo S's, you don't really need the "tubey" voicing of the STA-9 or the the MCH.  I love the sound of the Spatials with the 10 series combo with mine, but from another thread if you are trying to account for the less than stellar recording efforts of 60-70's rock I would try the DAC-9 and the ST-10. I tried my Spatials with two different tube amps and it wasn't for me.  I have tried them with six different amps and the best amp for me so far is the ST-10. So I would buy an ST-10 and then if you want the benefit of the 30 day return policy and you can't get one of the other dealers to do it then try the DAC-9 from Audio Advisor and if it doesn't work out swap it for a DAC-10.
Great, very helpful. I'm keeping a log with all the helpful suggestions.. Thanks.

JackD

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #123 on: 1 Jul 2016, 03:54 am »
The ST-10 really is that good of an amp and I have owned a bunch of them in the past 35+ years. As to the DAC that comes down to which flavor you want to try.

John Casler

Re: DAC-9
« Reply #124 on: 1 Jul 2016, 04:35 am »
Thanks..Any thoughts on the MCH-K38 amp with its tubey sound, paired with a DAC-10?

Jack D is correct. 

The first consideration should be the Preamp/DAC.  Whatever signal that leaves the DAC/Preamp, the amp will basically amplify with only small considerations or flavoring.

Secondly the K-38 does not have what might be considered "tubey sound".  It might be more between the STA-9 and the ST-10, but very small differences.

Not quite as aggressive and forward, as the ST-10, and not quite as warm as the STA-9.

But again, it is your DAC/Preamp that will determine the PRIMARY sonic, and the amp will offer secondary personality, based on the signal fed to it.

reillyzing

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #125 on: 1 Jul 2016, 04:39 am »
Jack D is correct. 

The first consideration should be the Preamp/DAC.  Whatever signal that leaves the DAC/Preamp, the amp will basically amplify with only small considerations or flavoring.

Secondly the K-38 does not have what might be considered "tubey sound".  It might be more between the STA-9 and the ST-10, but very small differences.

Not quite as aggressive and forward, as the ST-10, and not quite as warm as the STA-9.

But again, it is your DAC/Preamp that will determine the PRIMARY sonic, and the amp will offer secondary personality, based on the signal fed to it.
Another very helpful reply. Thanks.

Nidri17

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #126 on: 1 Jul 2016, 04:51 pm »
I would think in your situation I would look at the DAC-9 and the ST-10. The DAC would be more friendly to your music choice paired with the superior amp.

Agreed this is an excellent synergistic combination. Works really well with my Spendor S8e speakers.
Pretty much neutral, with just enough of a hint of natural warmth to suit my tastes.

agdev01

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #127 on: 1 Jul 2016, 07:04 pm »
Thanks for posting your thoughts and comparisons. I probably listen to a lot of the same music, and also 60s and 70s rock.
I wonder how the DAC-9 and two of the STA-9, both with TDSS mods would compare to an unmodified DAC-10 and ST-10.

Have you considered pairing the DAC-9 with ST-10 and DAC-10 with STA-9?

I played around with the DAC-9 and ST-10 for a little bit but not enough to give an accurate assessment of them both together.   Jack and John are spot on in regards to choosing the DAC first imo.  For Amp my biggest concern would be how much power you needed for your speakers/room.


reillyzing

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #128 on: 2 Jul 2016, 11:21 pm »
At least a few of you have been very helpful, but here's yet another comparison I'm looking for opinions on.
Ok, so for '60s through '90s rock, and prospectively with Spatial M3 Turbo S speakers, please post thoughts on the DAC-9 versus the DAC in the Vinnie Rossi LIO... If you have time to throw in any thoughts about the Gustard X-20, that would also be great. I know the Gustard is very well regarded, even against some much more expensive and popular DACs, but am unclear on where it stands in its rendering of '60s-'90s rock.

JackD

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #129 on: 2 Jul 2016, 11:39 pm »
Not sure you are going to find anyone who has had both in their system as they are aimed at different audiences.  Also a considerable cost difference especially with the size of the amp module.  Also will the amp in the LIO be enough for the size of your room?  I have found that the sensitivity rating can be misleading especially in a larger room if you want large scale dynamics.  The M3's are sensitive but they are not Altec or JBL horn sensitive and that supplied rating does not include the bass octaves.  By all accounts Vinnie has always built great products and I don't expect the LIO is any different than the Red Wine ones. 

Nidri17

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #130 on: 17 Jul 2016, 06:09 am »
There's one thing I've always wondered about regarding the DAC-9.

The AKM AK4490 DAC chip at the heart of this DAC allows for certain adjustments:

"Five digital filters are integrated into the AK4490: a short delay, sharp roll-off filter and a short delay, slow roll-off filter for minimum delay, a sharp roll-off filter and a slow roll-off filter for no phase shifting, and newly integrated super slow roll-off filter with emphasized characteristics provide a wide range of choice in digital filters." - From the AKM website.

Is there any reason, technical or otherwise, why this functionality was not included in the DAC-9?
& Could such functionality be added through a firmware update?

Failing that, it would still be interesting to know which filter setting is used in the DAC-9 implementation.

Tubegem

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #131 on: 27 Jul 2016, 01:36 am »
Normally this is the setup:
HT-pre-pro main L and R pre-out goes to DAC-9 analog inputs. Use the remote volume control to memorise the volume (it will remember the switch resistor level setting). Digital music source (CDP, computer) goes into DAC-9. DAC-9 outputs go to the amp.
So when watching movies, you select the DAC-9 analog input (where the volume is already memorised) and adjust the volume from your HT pre-pro.
Took delivery of a silver DAC-9 a couple of weeks ago and using exactly as above.  The HT bypass works like a charm.  It was also very easy to compare the DAC-9 to my OPPO 105D and Bitbox dacs, by simply using separate digital inputs and adjusting the volume for each, it was very quick to select on coax/glass optical on the same song. 
I'm very pleased with the sound as a DAC. A lot of people describe it as being on the warm side.  I find it to be very musical, delivering all the detail in the recording without throwing any overemphasized high notes in your face (mike feedback, microphone lisp etc).  To me the sound is organic and very enjoyable.  From horns to vocals and bass, all sounds rich and relaxing. I have not listened to the DAC-10. 
It continues to improve slightly even going unto it's third week of playing 10+ hours per day.  Also it's totally quiet.

pewe

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #132 on: 9 Aug 2016, 01:29 pm »
I've looked "everywhere" but haven't found any pictures from the inside of the DAC-9. Someone who can help?

Tauko

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #133 on: 13 Aug 2016, 04:25 pm »
I've looked "everywhere" but haven't found any pictures from the inside of the DAC-9. Someone who can help?

http://www.audionet.com.tw/data/attachment/forum/201602/25/145440ouqvb2fyqmub8evy.jpg

rustydoglim

Re: DAC-9
« Reply #134 on: 14 Aug 2016, 07:26 pm »
I am curious, what can you get by looking at an inside photo?
It is just circuit boards.

RDavidson

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #135 on: 14 Aug 2016, 07:35 pm »
People like to see things, like a nice beefy power supply. It's reassuring.....sort of like peeking under the hood of a car before buying.

rajacat

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #136 on: 14 Aug 2016, 07:38 pm »
+1

rustydoglim

Re: DAC-9
« Reply #137 on: 14 Aug 2016, 08:25 pm »
But that could be misleading. We have been designing amps and power supplies for a long time. 
Technologies have been advancing on amplifier for the past decade.  People are starting to realise that a small and compact amp (and low price) such as STA-9 can out performs a 50 lb Class A amp from years ago.
Most people's idea of a beefy power supply is simply a big linear transformer. We use that in DAC-9 because 1) it is cheap and 2) it has low noise.
But "beefy" linear power supply is not a good choice for high power amp. A DAC does not require much power so linear power supply is a good choice.  But a small and compact switching power supply provides very fast response and higher power density than linear power supply.  We can design switch power supply that is low noise.  It wasn't used in DAC-9 because low noise switching power supply is more expensive

For example, here's a prototype of a ridiculously small stereo amp (about 3" x 2" per channel) that can be bridged into 150W power at 8 ohm.

RDavidson

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #138 on: 14 Aug 2016, 08:44 pm »
Understood. I was just using "beefy power supply" as an example. This is obviously more important to see in "traditional" amplifier designs. I suppose, with a DAC, people might want to see the layout (is it clean?), maybe the caps, opamps, chip(s). I'm not entirely sure. Most of us in this hobby are men. We just like to see the working innards of stuff, even if it isn't really necessary to see it......like peeking under the hood of a car before buying. :thumb:

rajacat

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Re: DAC-9
« Reply #139 on: 14 Aug 2016, 08:45 pm »
Why not placate a potential customer ? No need to patronize :scratch:.  Its simple to just post a pic of the interior, for Pete's sake! If you were going to buy a car, wouldn't you like to pop the hood?