BDA-3 DAC

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audio.bill

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #100 on: 30 Dec 2015, 07:55 pm »
Congrats scirica! I agree with you about the beneficial aspect of handling PCM and DSD independently in their native formats as opposed to converting everything to a common format for decoding. The PS Audio DS, Playback Designs, and Meitner/EMM Labs all convert everything to DSD, while the majority of other DACs convert everything to PCM. I will be very interested in your thoughts on the BDA-3's sonics in both PCM and DSD and how it compares to other DACs you've heard. Enjoy your new black/blue BDA-3!

werd

Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #101 on: 30 Dec 2015, 09:02 pm »
Congrats scirica! I agree with you about the beneficial aspect of handling PCM and DSD independently in their native formats as opposed to converting everything to a common format for decoding. The PS Audio DS, Playback Designs, and Meitner/EMM Labs all convert everything to DSD, while the majority of other DACs convert everything to PCM. I will be very interested in your thoughts on the BDA-3's sonics in both PCM and DSD and how it compares to other DACs you've heard. Enjoy your new black/blue BDA-3!

You mean the lights "blue"?

audio.bill

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #102 on: 30 Dec 2015, 09:38 pm »
Yes, he's getting the black faceplate but with blue LEDs instead of the standard green ones.

Grit

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #103 on: 30 Dec 2015, 10:53 pm »
Oh Happy Day! I have a shiny new (black with blue lights) BDA-3 on the way to me!  I really loved my BDA-2 but wanted something that accepted DSD without conversion to PCM. I had originally placed a pre-order for the BDA-3 but backed out and picked up a PS Audio Directstream DAC from a local dealer. After reading all the positive reviews about the AKM chips and the Bryston implementation in particular I had to get one.

I really like the BDA-3 two path design for PCM and DSD as opposed to the PS Audio converting everything to DSD. It will be an interesting side by side comparison upon arrival.

We'd love to read your thoughts after you get a chance to a/b them.

scirica

Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #104 on: 31 Dec 2015, 01:24 am »
You mean the lights "blue"?

Yes.

scirica

Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #105 on: 31 Dec 2015, 01:25 am »
We'd love to read your thoughts after you get a chance to a/b them.

You will definitely read it here!

scirica

HDMI Pass-Through
« Reply #106 on: 3 Jan 2016, 12:08 am »
James:

Am I understanding the manual correctly in that I can pass HDMI video AND audio through the BDA-3 to my A/V processor as long as a non-HDMI input is selected? Does this mean that the Dolby and DTS audio streams will pass through untouched my A/V processor to use? If so, this means my Oppo 105D can stay connected to the BDA-3 without the need of an hdmi switcher.

Looking forward to next week and the arrival of the BDA-3!!

Mag

Re: HDMI Pass-Through
« Reply #107 on: 3 Jan 2016, 12:23 am »
James:

Am I understanding the manual correctly in that I can pass HDMI video AND audio through the BDA-3 to my A/V processor as long as a non-HDMI input is selected? Does this mean that the Dolby and DTS audio streams will pass through untouched my A/V processor to use? If so, this means my Oppo 105D can stay connected to the BDA-3 without the need of an hdmi switcher.

Looking forward to next week and the arrival of the BDA-3!!

Why would you want to bypass Dolby and DTS? What is your A/V processor?

My experience has been to run Dolby, DTS, pcm stereo to the BDA-1 then to the A/V processor for much better sound.

scirica

Re: HDMI Pass-Through
« Reply #108 on: 3 Jan 2016, 12:47 am »
Why would you want to bypass Dolby and DTS? What is your A/V processor?

My experience has been to run Dolby, DTS, pcm stereo to the BDA-1 then to the A/V processor for much better sound.

I think you misunderstood my question, which could be my fault in how I posed it. I want my Oppo 105D hooked to the BDA-3 via HDMI. When that input is engaged on the BDA-3 I will be listening to 2-channel DSD or PCM.  When that input is disengaged, I want everything to pass through to my McIntosh MX121 where the DTS or Dolby streams will be available for processing. Just clarifying that I am understanding this to be how it works.

Phil A

Re: HDMI Pass-Through
« Reply #109 on: 3 Jan 2016, 12:50 am »
I think you misunderstood my question, which could be my fault in how I posed it. I want my Oppo 105D hooked to the BDA-3 via HDMI. When that input is engaged on the BDA-3 I will be listening to 2-channel DSD or PCM.  When that input is disengaged, I want everything to pass through to my McIntosh MX121 where the DTS or Dolby streams will be available for processing. Just clarifying that I am understanding this to be how it works.

Page 5 of the owner's manual has some info:

"HDMI Passthrough
Incoming digital video may be passed through
to another receiver such as a surround sound
processor or display using the HDMI output . The
HDMI output can only pass HDMI audio when a
non-HDMI input is actively selected. See PTHD
command in “Serial Protocol” on page 10. The
digital audio outputs mirror the inputs. No sample
rate conversion or any other processing is applied to
the output.
HDMI inputs are 1.4a compliant and can pass 4K
video at up to 30fps. HDMI input 4 is HDCP 2.2
compliant. Video is passed through to a connected
monitor at the native resolution with no processing
or conversion."

scirica

Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #110 on: 3 Jan 2016, 01:08 am »
Phil:

Per my original post that is the exact manual reference that I am asking for clarification on. Maybe it's just me over complicating the question. I'm going to assume it will pass everything to my processor.

Mag

Re: HDMI Pass-Through
« Reply #111 on: 3 Jan 2016, 01:28 am »
I think you misunderstood my question, which could be my fault in how I posed it. I want my Oppo 105D hooked to the BDA-3 via HDMI. When that input is engaged on the BDA-3 I will be listening to 2-channel DSD or PCM.  When that input is disengaged, I want everything to pass through to my McIntosh MX121 where the DTS or Dolby streams will be available for processing. Just clarifying that I am understanding this to be how it works.

I don't think I misunderstood unless you are using two different pre-amps. Anyway all I'm saying is I would hook it up differently and would probably only use HDMI for the DSD.

scirica

Re: HDMI Pass-Through
« Reply #112 on: 3 Jan 2016, 01:40 am »
I don't think I misunderstood unless you are using two different pre-amps. Anyway all I'm saying is I would hook it up differently and would probably only use HDMI for the DSD.

And as I mentioned that would require adding an HDMI switch to my system, which I'd rather not do. Thanks for helping out. Appreciate the feedback here!

Phil A

Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #113 on: 3 Jan 2016, 03:47 am »
Phil:

Per my original post that is the exact manual reference that I am asking for clarification on. Maybe it's just me over complicating the question. I'm going to assume it will pass everything to my processor.

Not over complicating at all. In theory, based on the manual, I'd guess it would work.  Sometimes, however, things don't work exactly as one would expect them to.  For example, I used to use an HDMI audio de-embedder to take 24/88.2 out of the a modded Oppo BDP-83 player into my BDA-1 DAC (I thought the sound was better vs. playing the SACD and taking it into the preamp via the analog inputs).  Someone asked me if the de-embedder would work with Dolby Digital (they had a non-HDMI receiver at the time) and, while it was several years backk, I don't recall getting it to work taking the coax input into a receiver (don't ask me why).  I'd think that Bryston designed it in that manner just for that purpose thinking someone may use something like an Oppo so they could both take advantage of the better DAC for music and also being able to watch video.

James Tanner

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #114 on: 4 Jan 2016, 01:55 am »
Jan 1, 2016

OnTheFly

I owned a BDA-1 a long time ago but then bought a SP3 so moved it on. I had another DAC recommended to me but it was 'how much!'.

I'm currently listening to The War of The Worlds. Not sure Richard Burton has ever sounded this good.

It also sounds great with regular CD's, though I had forgot what a bind it is to keep getting up to swap discs.
 


Iuliucra

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #115 on: 4 Jan 2016, 09:22 pm »
any suggestions on how to configure JRiver MC21 with a Mac Mini to work with the BDA 3 so it can play DSD files

R. Daneel

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #116 on: 5 Jan 2016, 03:11 pm »
Hi Folks,

The reason we do not offer DSD playback on the BDA-3 on the AES and COAX ‘inputs’ has to do with the sample rate converters currently available. DSD samples at much higher frequencies than PCM and current sample rate converters are not capable of operating at those higher frequencies. The BDA3 is a modular design and some new sample rate converters being developed now claim they will offer native high resolution PMC 352 and PMC 384 sample rate capability as well as DSD.  We will certainly look at them going forward and offer an upgrade if they perform better.

So to offer DSD on the AES or COAX inputs on the BDA-3 means you would have to bypass the sample rate converter on the AES or COAX inputs which would ‘increase jitter’ because our current sample converters in the BDA-3 reduce jitter on the input. 

So in Bryston’s case we definitely want the sample rate converter in the circuit for 44.1 to 192 PCM signals. Also some DAC’s we have looked at that are DSD capable on those inputs convert all the incoming sample rates (44,48,88,96,176,192Hz) to a very high single sample rate ‘Asynchronously’ whereas our preference with our DAC’s is to maintain the ‘Native’ incoming PCM sample rate throughout the conversion process with all PCM signals.  If we do up-sample we do it in a synchronous manner so (44.1 becomes 176.4 and 48 becomes 192) not asynchronous.

So the way USB works on the BDA-3 is we have a special input circuit that determines if the incoming signal is PCM or DSD and routes the signal to the appropriate input circuit. These are completely different circuit paths optimized for the different ways PCM and DSD are handled to optimize performance. So PCM from 44 to 384 is optimized as well as DSD DOP 64 and 128 and Native DSD 64 /128 and 356 (x1/x2/x4). 

We feel this is the best option currently and due to the modularity of the BDA-3 we can make changes going forward as better devices are developed but maintaining and optimizing the best ‘NATIVE’ playback (either PCM or DSD) is am important goal in our designs.

Hope this helps.

James


Hi James!

This explanation reminds me of BDA-2. When it was introduced, it was said that the then-new AKM AK4399 chips supported DSD and therefore such implementation would be possible. However, as it turned out later, by doing so the sample-rate converter (SRC) would have to be bypassed which would, in turn, degrade PCM performance since the SRC is an integral part of the DAC's jitter-elimination system. You then mentioned it almost seems as though to offer uncompromised performance of both PCM and DSD you need to separate the circuitry completely, at least before the actual conversion takes place. Clearly, the result of this thinking is the BDA-3.

Is that right?

Cheers!
Antun

James Tanner

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #117 on: 5 Jan 2016, 04:13 pm »
Hi James!

This explanation reminds me of BDA-2. When it was introduced, it was said that the then-new AKM AK4399 chips supported DSD and therefore such implementation would be possible. However, as it turned out later, by doing so the sample-rate converter (SRC) would have to be bypassed which would, in turn, degrade PCM performance since the SRC is an integral part of the DAC's jitter-elimination system. You then mentioned it almost seems as though to offer uncompromised performance of both PCM and DSD you need to separate the circuitry completely, at least before the actual conversion takes place. Clearly, the result of this thinking is the BDA-3.

Is that right?

Cheers!
Antun

Hi Antun

Yes correct and was the main reason why it took so long to get the BDA3 out from a design perspective.

james


Servingthemusic.com

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #118 on: 5 Jan 2016, 04:25 pm »
Hi Antun

Yes correct and was the main reason why it took so long to get the BDA3 out from a design perspective.

james

James, quick question:

Do the USB and AES/EBU inputs both remain active on the BDA-3 when connected to a BDP-2 via both connections..meaning can you just toggle between inputs, or must the BDP-2 be rebooted?

Thanks.

James Tanner

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #119 on: 5 Jan 2016, 04:36 pm »
James, quick question:

Do the USB and AES/EBU inputs both remain active on the BDA-3 when connected to a BDP-2 via both connections..meaning can you just toggle between inputs, or must the BDP-2 be rebooted?

Thanks.

Hi

You can toggle

james