[FullRangeMan]

There is no even air core inductors in this xover.

[DaveC113]

There is no even air core inductors in this xover.

There are 4 I can see, although it seems strange they all share the same orientation, with two being stacked...  I'm sure this is intentional but not sure why.

Cored inductors are often better for woofers as the DCR can be much lower.

[FullRangeMan]

There are 4 I can see, although it seems strange they all share the same orientation, with two being stacked...  I'm sure this is intentional but not sure why.

Cored inductors are often better for woofers as the DCR can be much lower.

These 4 which you refer are using a black plastic reel.
But 4 air core did not help the sound quality too much.

[AJinFLA]

Clinic, unorganic and dry sound I had ear fatigue in these short videos, but the hostess was nice legs.

Irrelevant.

I disagree. I think the hostess having nice legs is pretty relevant.

[mresseguie]

Irrelevant.
I disagree. I think the hostess having nice legs is pretty relevant.

Mr. Esseguie agrees wholeheartedly.

[Russell Dawkins]

This make sense, even so is easily noted that some recordings are very good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlgdVmFf4n0&feature=endscreen&NR=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0TczwkYICQ

Hmmm. It sounds boomy and glassy to me, but the volume knob adjuster has well-trimmed fingernails.

[planet10]

Have you all seen these videos on these new Yamaha ns 5000's...these speakers sound DAMN GOOD!

youtube.com

How can you tell? The crap is knocked out of any audio on YouTube, and what you will be listening to is convolved with the system the video was recored with, the mic (huge information loss there), the room, and your system.

dave

[Anonamemouse]

The stop and go speed of these speakers are amazing!.. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyIh2PnHKdc  <   

I am well beyond curious how you came to this conclusion.
I design and build loudspeakers for fun, and am 100% positive I can build better sounding ones for less money. The X over filter in the NS 5000 has LOTS of room for improvement. The placement of the coils... Yeah... Probably done by the intern.

[Russell Dawkins]

I design and build loudspeakers for fun, and am 100% positive I can build better sounding ones for less money.

I am curious how you came to this conclusion. Have you heard these?

Maybe you could go into production and beat Yamaha at their own game—how hard could that be, with all your experience and apparent know-how?

Those acoustic devices behind the mid dome and the HF dome and those in the main part of the cabinet of the NS-5000—all probably done by another intern, too.

And what does Yamaha know about sound, anyway? I'm sure designing and building at world class levels almost all modern musical instruments—all brass, all woodwinds, strings, percussion and synthesizers, electric guitars, electric keyboards plus studio and live recorders, mixers, processors, speakers, amplifiers and electronics of all kinds, not to speak of world beating racing motorcycles, outboard motors, powerboats, snow skis and let's not forget pianos on the side—all this counts for nothing. They also have the advantage of owning mines, smelters and forests in order to produce much of their production needs of metals and wood.

See this incomplete (but very long) list of Yamaha product:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Yamaha_products

[Guy 13]

Hi Russell,
holy smoke !
Yamaha are in everything that make (Beautiful or bad) noise.
Piano being beautiful noise and motorcycle being bad noise,
of course depending if you are or not a racer,
then it could be beautiful noise to your ears.
(I went on Wikipedia)
Some large Japanese corporation are into all sorts of manufacturing.
Like Mitsubishi, they make cars, VCR (I've owned one),
printer-thermal paper, construction equipment
and certainly more...
Soooo, Yamaha speakers ?
Of course any type of equipment can be up-graded,
but does it mean that the original design is bad ????

Guy 13
on planet Vietnam.

(I have noticed that a few AudioCircle members think they know more
and are smarter than the manufacturers themselves.


 

[Anonamemouse]

I am curious how you came to this conclusion. Have you heard these?

No, I haven't. But I am just one guy, with the aid of a few friends (one of which is a professor at all things sound related at the TU Delft - a school similar to the MIT). So no overhead costs, no team of 35 technicians and engineers and such who all have mouths to feed at home, no cost related compromises, no 18 layers of finish, no ridiculously expensive presentation parties, no management and executive teams with 7 figure salaries. All of which *you* pay for when you buy these loudspeaker cabinets.

I have compared my own homebuilt loudspeakers to the B&W 803 Diamond. Measurements are VERY similar, the sound is so close that it's not a matter of "better", but a matter of "preference". All for less than a third of the price of the 803 D.

The X-over filter in these NS 5000's is a prime example of doing things that are not visible to the audience the cheap way. Invest $200 (per cabinet) and they WILL sound better (if you know what you're doing that is).

[Letitroll98]

And you don't benefit from the economy of scale of building thousands of units.  The real price difference you speak of is not in the design and manufacturing, it's in the mid level distribution and dealer markup.  If you could buy those B and W's at factory cost they'd likely be cheaper than your homebuilt speakers.  And if you got rid of those 18 layers of beautiful finish they'd be even cheaper still, cabinet building and finishing are are one of the most expensive components of speaker manufacturing, but the market wants beautiful furniture at that price.  Although everyone here knows a talented crossover designer might improve a design, witness Danny Richie of GR, you're not being ripped off by speaker manufacturers.

[Russell Dawkins]

I have compared my own homebuilt loudspeakers to the B&W 803 Diamond. Measurements are VERY similar, the sound is so close that it's not a matter of "better", but a matter of "preference". All for less than a third of the price of the 803 D.

If you were talking of a speaker other than the B&W 803 I'd be more impressed. Unfortunately I don't have much respect for the B&W line's sonics. If your homebuilt speaker compared favorably to the 42 year old Yamaha NS-1000, then you would have my attention...

The X-over filter in these NS 5000's is a prime example of doing things that are not visible to the audience the cheap way. Invest $200 (per cabinet) and they WILL sound better (if you know what you're doing that is).

You seem once again to presume you know what you are doing and Yamaha does not—or is being deceitful in hiding inferior quality workmanship inside the box.
I think you are over-reaching in your assumptions about the degree of care and knowledge that Yamaha puts into their crossovers. For example as early as 1972/3 they were working extensively with Nichicon, the manufacturers of the capacitors used in the NS-1000, at a time when most had yet to be awakened to the sonic differences between capacitors. As early as 1978, they were sufficiently concerned about the fine details in their crossover design that they were avoiding the use of solder in favor of plasma spot welding in the 1987 NS-10000. Does this sound like hiding inferior quality where it cannot be seen? Do you use solder in your crossovers?

Then there is the small matter of the drivers themselves. They predated Focal in their use of beryllium for tweeters by—oh—35 years? 42 years ago they were employing 9 cm beryllium mid range domes, all of their own design and construction, of course, but probably not by one of the 'interns'. I'm not aware of any other beryllium mid range domes ever made by any company other than Yamaha for home use, and I don't think it's because they don't sound good, but more likely because they are beyond the capabilities of lesser companies and/or they are simply too costly to make. I am finally starting to see some beryllium being used in very expensive compression drivers, though.

Read this and learn what a serious company you are trivially dissing:
http://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/hifi-history/speaker/

[Guy 13]

Russell,
thanks for the link to Yamaha history.
I link to see vintage audio stuff,
because it reminds me the good old days of audio.
Thanks again and by the way, I like what you wrote
in your post.

Guy 13
on planet Vietnam.
 

[trackball02]

I'm a proud owner of Yamaha NS-1000 (Ebony wood). These are phenomenal speakers. Really no weakness and the beryllium tweeter and mid range are awesome. The care and construction could have only been pulled off by a large corporation with tremendous resources. The literature that was published by Yamaha really attest to their extensive R&D. A good measure on how these speakers are respected is their high resale value to this day. I'm not going to ever sell mine. Got to be careful in feeding these with really good quality amplification and sources. 

There are a lot of great reviews on line. Here is a fun one:
http://cheaptubeaudio.blogspot.com/2010/09/review-yamaha-ns-1000.html

The adjustable high and mid level controls in the front of the speaker is an added benefit. Sorry to see these go away with the new 5000's. Nevertheless, I would love to audition the new models. Has anyone listened to them in person?

[Russell Dawkins]

Here's another insightful and well-informed (except possibly for the amplifier recommendations) review:
http://www.inner-magazines.com/news/82/57/Yamaha-NS1000/

I think the amp for these is the Yamaha B-2, of which there are still a few around since they sold 10,000 of them. At $2500 apiece in 1978!

[planet10]

I have compared my own homebuilt loudspeakers to the B&W 803 Diamond. Measurements are VERY similar, the sound is so close that it's not a matter of "better", but a matter of "preference". All for less than a third of the price of the 803 D.

Only a 1/3rd? That is a pretty high multiplier when comparing good diy to commercial. 10:1 is more common (once you toss the diy that are junk)

dave

[G Georgopoulos]

If you were talking of a speaker other than the B&W 803 I'd be more impressed. Unfortunately I don't have much respect for the B&W line's sonics. If your homebuilt speaker compared favorably to the 42 year old Yamaha NS-1000, then you would have my attention...

You seem once again to presume you know what you are doing and Yamaha does not—or is being deceitful in hiding inferior quality workmanship inside the box.
I think you are over-reaching in your assumptions about the degree of care and knowledge that Yamaha puts into their crossovers. For example as early as 1972/3 they were working extensively with Nichicon, the manufacturers of the capacitors used in the NS-1000, at a time when most had yet to be awakened to the sonic differences between capacitors. As early as 1978, they were sufficiently concerned about the fine details in their crossover design that they were avoiding the use of solder in favor of plasma spot welding in the 1987 NS-10000. Does this sound like hiding inferior quality where it cannot be seen? Do you use solder in your crossovers?

Then there is the small matter of the drivers themselves. They predated Focal in their use of beryllium for tweeters by—oh—35 years? 42 years ago they were employing 9 cm beryllium mid range domes, all of their own design and construction, of course, but probably not by one of the 'interns'. I'm not aware of any other beryllium mid range domes ever made by any company other than Yamaha for home use, and I don't think it's because they don't sound good, but more likely because they are beyond the capabilities of lesser companies and/or they are simply too costly to make. I am finally starting to see some beryllium being used in very expensive compression drivers, though.

Read this and learn what a serious company you are trivially dissing:
http://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/hifi-history/speaker/

Russell in the 70s there were lot's of other companies making good speakers,to me mentioning yamaha only means you know less than you think!

welding and just caps don't make good speakers also

[Guy 13]

Russell in the 70s there were lot's of other companies making good speakers,to me mentioning yamaha only means you know less than you think!

welding and just caps don't make good speakers also

Mr. Georgopoulos,
with comments like that one you have just posted,
you won't make friends with many AudioCircle members
and that includes me.

Guy 13
on planet Vietnam.

[thunderbrick]