FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?

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OSIB16

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FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?
« on: 28 Feb 2018, 06:58 pm »
Hi Jeff, whats is the finest internal gauge/wire that you sell; for me to use inside a speaker for the Bass/Mid unit? Please also specify the gauge.
« Last Edit: 28 Feb 2018, 10:27 pm by OSIB16 »

Jeff

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Re: FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?
« Reply #1 on: 2 Mar 2018, 09:53 am »
I need more information.

What brand/model midbass driver?  More than one?  XO point?  How is it loaded?  Desired result?  What amp will you be driving it with.  What speaker cables will you be using?

JLM

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Re: FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?
« Reply #2 on: 2 Mar 2018, 12:59 pm »
Why not match the speaker cable?

OSIB16

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Re: FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?
« Reply #3 on: 2 Mar 2018, 02:33 pm »
The speakers which are for my secondary system, are Bang & Olufsen Beolab 6000 active Floorstanders. I am going to be using cotton covered Neotech 22Gauge copper (which I previously purchased from you) on the TWEETERS. However, for the Bass/Mid drivers I was possibly considering some kind of 12awg copper?? What would you suggest?

There are 2 Bass/Mids along with 1 Tweeter per cabinet.

I want an improvement across the entire sound.


Below are the speaker specs along with a link to the webpage...

https://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=778

Dimensions W x H x D/'Weight:   20 x 110 x 22 cm/6.2 kg
Cabinet/cloth finish   aluminium/black, black/black, aluminium/silver, dark grey/dark grey, blue/black, red/black, aluminium/white, golden/black.
Stopped Sept. 2003: silver/dark grey, blue/blue, green/green, red/red
Stopped June 2005: light blue/light blue
Stopped Dec. 2008: yellow
Networked standby   3 watts
Off mode   0 watts
Mains   6821 EU 230V
6822 GB 230V
6823 USA-CDN 120V
6824 J 100V
6825 AUS 240V
6826 KOR 220V
Maximum Sound Pressure Level (stereo, pair)   96 dB
Power amplifier modules   2 units, Class AB
Long-term maximum output power per module*   59 watts
Effective frequency range*   55 - 20,000 Hz
Cabinet principle   Bass Reflex
Magntic shielded   Yes
Woofer   2 x 9 cm - 3½"
Tweeter   1.9 cm - 3/4"
Net volume   3 litres
Bass equalizer   Adaptive (ABL)

*According to IEC 268-3 and 268-5   



I need more information.

What brand/model midbass driver?  More than one?  XO point?  How is it loaded?  Desired result?  What amp will you be driving it with.  What speaker cables will you be using?

Jeff

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Re: FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?
« Reply #4 on: 9 Mar 2018, 06:10 am »
Why not match the speaker cable?

Optimized speaker wire has to be great over full bandwidth through longer lengths at higher power levels.  Post XO, we are narrower bandwidth, and lower power.  This speaker is active, so there are now several more reasons why we could do better for a post XO/amp...application specific...

The speakers which are for my secondary system, are Bang & Olufsen Beolab 6000 active Floorstanders. I am going to be using cotton covered Neotech 22Gauge copper (which I previously purchased from you) on the TWEETERS. However, for the Bass/Mid drivers I was possibly considering some kind of 12awg copper?? What would you suggest?

My apologies for the late reply.  I would use a solid 16ga of your choice.  Larger wire will not help this unit to play lower, or with more authority.  However, larger than 16ga will not have 100% skin depth to 10kHz.  Stranded will not have the mid qualities you are looking for here.  Whatever you use, be sure to do a twisted pair.

Neotech is better copper.  That Cotton Neotech is a poly blend.  Jupiter cotton insulation will sound better than any plastic.  Flip a coin.

lokie

Re: FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?
« Reply #5 on: 9 Mar 2018, 02:43 pm »
Quote
Whatever you use, be sure to do a twisted pair.

To clarify... a pair goes to each run? As in, one run to the positive terminal? Or... twist the pair  going to the positive and the negative?

Whats the optimum number of twist per foot? This can drastically effect the length of wire used... as I'm sure you know.

Jeff

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Re: FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?
« Reply #6 on: 10 Mar 2018, 05:21 am »
To clarify... a pair goes to each run? As in, one run to the positive terminal? Or... twist the pair  going to the positive and the negative?  Whats the optimum number of twist per foot? This can drastically effect the length of wire used... as I'm sure you know.

A "pair" only.  That means on one conductor per polarity.  I do not care how much twist, just twisted.

A twisted pair will have better mechanical damping and lower inductance...along with the noise cancelling geometry.  Without measurements no one could spec the ideal pitch for his unique application.  Regardless, you will pick up the same multiples or fractions of bandwidth in the 180* out of phase leg.  I do not think anyone here is unaware that twisting wire will shorten the length.  However, the convention is 10-12%.  I find only 8-9% with the most aggressive twisted pair.

If I were doing it, 3-4 rotations per inch.

OSIB16

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Re: FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?
« Reply #7 on: 10 Mar 2018, 01:58 pm »
My apologies for the late reply.  I would use a solid 16ga of your choice.  Larger wire will not help this unit to play lower, or with more authority.  However, larger than 16ga will not have 100% skin depth to 10kHz.  Stranded will not have the mid qualities you are looking for here.  Whatever you use, be sure to do a twisted pair.

Neotech is better copper.  That Cotton Neotech is a poly blend.  Jupiter cotton insulation will sound better than any plastic.  Flip a coin.
[/quote]






Jeff, the problem with using the 16 AWG Solid Core is that it probably isn’t the best choice for bass, due to BASS preferring strands. Unfortunately the Beolab 6000 is a bit light on bass, so I don’t want to aggravate this shortcoming. I was thinking that the POSSIBLE solution to this would be to use ‘one’ of the VARISTRAND wires from a Neotech NES-3004 speaker cable. Just one of these contains a 16 AWG copper varistrand of different diameters; which would probably be adequate for covering the BASS to MIDRANGE frequencies. What do you think?

The other possible solution is for me to use Cardas 15.5 varistrand hookup wire? Again; the various different sized strands would be adequate for covering  bass to mid frequencies?

Speedskater

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Re: FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?
« Reply #8 on: 10 Mar 2018, 02:20 pm »
Forget about skin depth!  It's about end-to-end impedance of the two conductor cable at the frequency in question. A smaller cross-section area will have a higher impedance than a larger cross-section area, skin effect or not.  But in any case the skin effect will be overwhelmed by the loop inductance of the two conductor cable.
Note that the farther apart that the two conductors are spaced, the more important loop inductance is.

Jeff

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Re: FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?
« Reply #9 on: 14 Mar 2018, 04:43 am »
Jeff, the problem with using the 16 AWG Solid Core is that it probably isn’t the best choice for bass

Stranded 8ga, would have nothing on solid 16ga below 55Hz on these 3.5".  However, stranded 8ga would sound like ass up to 10kHz compared to solid 16ga.

Quote
due to BASS preferring strands

That is not a hard and fast rule.  However, DCV does seem to prefer stranded, so low frequencies...  Further, larger solid wire becomes unwieldy copper rod at some point.

Quote
Unfortunately the Beolab 6000 is a bit light on bass, so I don’t want to aggravate this shortcoming.

You don't say... :scratch: :o :roll: :icon_lol: :lol:  No wire out there is going to turn that pair of 3.5" drivers into a long throw 12".

Quote
I was thinking that the POSSIBLE solution to this would be to use ‘one’ of the VARISTRAND wires from a Neotech NES-3004 speaker cable. Just one of these contains a 16 AWG copper varistrand of different diameters; which would probably be adequate for covering the BASS to MIDRANGE frequencies. What do you think?

I've already told you what I think.  What are you going to do with the rest of the runs from the 3004?  BTW, I sold the 3004 for years.  Mainly because customers asked for it in that price range.  I never liked it.

It will not improve your bass anymore than solid 16ga, and it will be a downgrade everywhere else.

Quote
The other possible solution is for me to use Cardas 15.5 varistrand hookup wire? Again; the various different sized strands would be adequate for covering  bass to mid frequencies?

Cardas litz is a far superior "stranded wire".  It is not OCC, but it is 6/9s.  The Neo wire you were referring to is PVC insulated where the Cardas is Teflon.  The Cardas has a much more complex spread spectrum stranding.  The Cardas is cross field wound and pitched near propagation matching.  Further, it is litz.

As good as the Cardas is, it would not improve the bass on "those" speakers over solid 16ga.  High quality solid 16ga in cotton would sound better in all the range that those 3.5"ers do cover :wink:

Forget about skin depth!  It's about end-to-end impedance of the two conductor cable at the frequency in question. A smaller cross-section area will have a higher impedance than a larger cross-section area, skin effect or not.  But in any case the skin effect will be overwhelmed by the loop inductance of the two conductor cable. Note that the farther apart that the two conductors are spaced, the more important loop inductance is.

I can't forget about skin depth.  Mainly because I believe I can hear sonic characteristics related to skin depth and self inductance.  The end to end imp of this twisted pair will likely be negligible from 55-10k.  There is nothing factually incorrect in my recommendation.  I guess I missed your recommendation?

OSIB16

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Re: FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?
« Reply #10 on: 14 Mar 2018, 12:46 pm »
OK Jeff so 16awg solid it is. Out of curiousity, what would the negativity to the 'midrange' sound like if I used stranded?

Jeff

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Re: FINEST ‘GAUGE’ HOOKUP WIRE FOR BASS/MID UNIT?
« Reply #11 on: 18 Mar 2018, 07:50 pm »
With solid, I find the midrange more natural.