[BaronKyle]

This was posted on my vintage Hi-Fi feed today.  This gentleman sold Mac at his audio store, close to Mac HQ where it all started.  He was a fan of their tube gear, didn't like any of their solid state from 74 to 82, and speaks of questionable rep sales practices.  He goes on to say --->

I have to separate the product from the company first, although I think they are related.  On the business side, it was absolutely the sleaziest, most difficult and ethically challenged group I ran into in eight years of audio retailing.  I won't get into those issues here, just leave it that the things people here think Bose and others do was standard operating procedure at the gang at Mac. The more overbearing they got, the more salespeople stopped supporting them, which means they have no one to blame but themselves for their "death spiral" that nearly shut their doors in the 1980's.  The products we sold between 74-82 were admittedly not their best, including the MAC 1900 receiver (only receiver I ever had catch fire during a demo) and the other solid-state designs then were less than stellar. I liked every other amp I heard better, the McIntosh stuff just sounded dark and syrupy-- we tended to sell it with ESS, JBL, Yamaha beryllium and other more forward speakers for that reason.  And since our other electronics sounded better in our soundrooms where you could AB them with McIntosh (Yamaha, Tandberg, Mitsubishi, HK Citation, many others) I could never see spending that kind of money you could put to other gear.  I count as two friends former McIntosh presidents and certainly "hate" is too strong a word, but I tried hard to like the company and brand and it just always let me down...I can understand why people like the stuff though.

I said everything there is to say I think.  My experience in audio retailing (74-82) coincides with McIntosh's worst years, and they should have been in front of the wave instead of doing what they did from a product and business standpoint.  Their tactics worked with the old guard; the only rep I ever threw out of my store worked for McIntosh.  Full disclosure I worked for Carver 15 years later, which came from the opposite side. Not coincidentally Bob Carver got his start going to McIntosh clinics and showing them up with his coffee-can prototypes... like I said it was a tough decade for them.

[daves]

Baron, with something of this ilk, it is always better to post it with the attached name....or not post it at all.

[BaronKyle]

Sure, posted by Mark Cerasuolo.

Keep in mind I have no bias one way or the other towards Mac. 

I have heard some Mac fans say the 1900 receiver normally has lots of shop time.

I was actually casually shopping Mac just prior..

[hdspeakerman]

I have had my MC2100 for 40 years and Mike did the first serious work to it last year.  He changed several small caps.  I would not trade it for any piece of audio equipment that I have ever heard. It is my all time favorite amp.  I also have an MC7300 and I am very happy with it.  I don't care about the politics of the sales organization. Just another opinion.

[Norman Tracy]

So.......the story we are being asked to believe is that for 8 years the writer sold to his retail customers a high cost luxury item from a company that was unethical, hard to work with, and made unreliable equipment. Up to and including the demonstrated possibility of burning down one of the writer's customers homes. And when not catching on fire it was the worst sounding amps of any ever heard he "liked every other amp heard better". Funny I thought one of the first services offered by a good dealer is to screen the companies and products stocked. For the fine sound it makes, and the fact it won't burn down my house.

This "interesting perspective" is bull shit originally posted by a troll then cross posted by a newbie.

[JLM]

Yep as a young aspiring audiophile I bought a Mac 6100 integrated in 1976 (70 wpc solid state).  "Dark and syrupy" describes the sound pretty well.  My friend's tiny inexpensive but well respected Advent receiver blew it out of the water (even with it's less than stellar power amp).

[BaronKyle]

Norman, no need for name calling here, please.

A second thought is that I surely don't believe everything I read, but it can create interesting conversation.

This post made me consider that Mac perhaps had a difficult transition into solid state with "some" of their gear, during certain years.  Their tube gear is highly regarded.  Also every company has product peaks and lows when they are in business multiple decades.

This poster caught my attention, because prior, I had never heard anything but accolades for the company.

[RDavidson]

I think you've captured a facet of why some folks love Mac gear and some hate it. Don't blindly trust a brand just because your cool uncle has it. Do your research and take the very opinionated stances (as you've posted) as info, not gospel. At the end of the day, only your own experiences form your truth.

[JimJ]

People keep grudges that long?

Now, if only Amazon can put car dealerships out of business...Tesla's trying...

[daves]

FWIW, Bob Carver got his start with Phase Linear, not carting the M400 prototype around to McIntosh clinics. Anyone who ever was at a Mac clinic would know that!

[DaveLadely]

Baron, with something of this ilk, it is always better to post it with the attached name....or not post it at all.

The statement about Bob Carver is not accurate.
I have been involved with audio/video since 1965, with Bob Carver. Bob built an amplifier for me with parts i chose and purchased.  The amp weighed about 130 pounds, was on three chassis (stereo channels and separate power supply).  This very large tube  amp, built in late 1966, was far more powerful than the most powerful consumer amps available (McIntosh 275 and dual Marantz Model 9s).  Bob and I took it to the McIntosh Clinic when it came to the Seattle area, at Seattle Stereo.  The amp blew all the others away.  This inspired Bob to build a solid state version, came up with the name Phase Linear in 1967.  Bob began building his first solid state Phase Linear 700 amps in  1969, in a house located on 3rd avenue in the north Shoreline area.  He soon moved to a larger house on 25th Avenue in the nearby Richmond Beach area, where he continued building Phase Linear 700 amps.  In January, 1970, Bob brought a complete amp to the McIntosh Clinic, where it tested at a bit over 350 watts RMS/channel, with very low distortion across the audio frequency band.  The story about the "coffee can" amp is not at all true.  Bob showed me the amp shortly afterward, along with the report.   Bob has humorously went along with this myth, even on Utube, as it makes a good story, but all anyone has to do is read the McIntosh report to verify that they tested a production Phase Linear 700.  Anyway, there is no way a 700 watt RMS amp would fit in any coffee can.  Get real.   Not long afterward, Bob sent a sample to Hirsch-Houck Laboratories to be tested.  Audio Magazine published Julian Hirsch's report, where he found that the near universal assumption that 175 watts was "more than enough power for any home" to accurately reproduce any music on any system was not true.  He found that his test of Horowitz on the piano required around 500 watts RMS for low distortion, realistic reproduction.  After that report, demand for Phase Linear 700 watts suddenly increased until more Phase Linear amps were sold than McIntosh and Marantz combined.  Phase Linear was sold to Pioneer in the early 1980s, but, without Bob as designer, the company foundered.  At present, I am helping Bob with his new Amazing Line Source speakers, which are just getting into production. DaveLadely@ aol.com

[daves]

Dave, you said my statement was wrong, and then you spent five minutes detailing my statement was right. Phase Linear was his first company, where he started.

[Folsom]

It's a good thing they got out of the syrup years.

[SteveFord]

If I'm not mistaken the Folger's Coffee Can amp was built after Bob was kicked out of Flame Linear and prior to the start of Carver Corp.
He needed something to make a statement to generate interest (and money) for a new company.

[BaronKyle]

I wasn't around during the Phase Linear heyday.

What was their target market--low, mid, or hifi?

Just going from what I've seen, I would guess mid-fi with an attempt to win the "wattage" race that was happening.

[daves]

Their market niche was bbq and they were high end high power.

[BaronKyle]

 

(Just so you know, I am replying to everything to get my post count up.  I want to move from junior member to member)

Takes.....so......long.

[BaronKyle]

.....ok, the software has some checks in place, back to the drawing board.

[Bob in St. Louis]

(Just so you know, I am replying to everything to get my post count up.  I want to move from junior member to member)

Takes.....so......long.

If you really want to pad your post count, you can go over the noob area and welcome all the newcomers in.
Just a thought.