I bet I can make your speakers sound better.

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Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #200 on: 9 Apr 2019, 11:43 pm »
OK, so it was all "measured" subjectively with your ears?

Isn't that what this hobby is all about? Listening....?

So far the feedback that I get on the tube connectors is consistent that they sound better than binding posts. And every single customer that has installed them in parallel with their binding posts, so that they can swap back and forth between the two, have all given feedback that the tube connectors sound better.

So far I'd have to say they have been quite a success.

The differences are greater on higher end systems, but even with mid-fi or budget level gear the feedback is the same.

Check this one out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLnBW3wuBSU&t=2s  Ron has some good ears.

bferguson

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #201 on: 12 Jul 2019, 02:32 pm »
Hi Danny

I've got a pair of Legacy Audio Legacy One's (superceded by Legacy Classic)....they are a little over 20 years old...I just replaced the woofer surrounds and was thinking about doing some upgrades...The cabinets are in great shape.  I'm going to be moving in the next couple of years, so I don't want to buy anything new.

are you familiar with these?

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #202 on: 12 Jul 2019, 03:54 pm »
Hi Danny

I've got a pair of Legacy Audio Legacy One's (superceded by Legacy Classic)....they are a little over 20 years old...I just replaced the woofer surrounds and was thinking about doing some upgrades...The cabinets are in great shape.  I'm going to be moving in the next couple of years, so I don't want to buy anything new.

are you familiar with these?

I've worked with customers that have had various models from them in the past. The common thing that I have seen in those are pretty budget level parts, various colors of PVC jacketed common electrical wire, and a kris-cross of wiring and connections that look a bit like a rats nest.

I have pictures of some of them in my Legacy file folder.

There is a lot of up-side potential there if you want to go through them and upgrade the parts quality, wire, and connectors.

There are several ways to go about it and a lot of options as to how far to try and take them performance wise verses dollars spent. But that is one that I would consider replacing everything internally.

jrosa64

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #203 on: 13 Sep 2019, 02:50 pm »
Hello Danny, my name is Jose Rosa. I have a pair of B&W 683 S1 that a friend just give it to me for free. I was listening to them and I noticed that the tweeter sounded very low. The others drivers sounded ok. I took both tweeters out and tested them on another speaker and the sounded normally. So I'm guessing the problem is with the crossover. Anyway, I read that you can recommend or make changes to the crossover with information and pictures of the crossovers. That is a great option for me because I live in Puerto Rico and shipping the speakers anywhere is very expensive and I don't have an option for warranty. For an acceptable amount I'm willing to make it happen. Thanks for your help in advanced.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #204 on: 13 Sep 2019, 09:13 pm »
Hello Danny, my name is Jose Rosa. I have a pair of B&W 683 S1 that a friend just give it to me for free. I was listening to them and I noticed that the tweeter sounded very low. The others drivers sounded ok. I took both tweeters out and tested them on another speaker and the sounded normally. So I'm guessing the problem is with the crossover. Anyway, I read that you can recommend or make changes to the crossover with information and pictures of the crossovers. That is a great option for me because I live in Puerto Rico and shipping the speakers anywhere is very expensive and I don't have an option for warranty. For an acceptable amount I'm willing to make it happen. Thanks for your help in advanced.

It is odd that they would sound that way. Those are usually voiced a bit hot in the top end.

It sounds like something has failed somewhere.

If it were simply a balance issue then I'd have you draw out the schematic and values used I can give you recommendations as to what to change to bring the level up or down.

But I have the feeling that something else is the issue.

jrosa64

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #205 on: 13 Sep 2019, 09:33 pm »
This weekend I'm going to disassemble one of them to inspect it. I can share pictures so you can see if something is damage.

jrosa64

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #206 on: 14 Sep 2019, 03:07 pm »
Here are the pictures of the HF/MF Crossover. I also connect the tweeter to the MID connectors for a few seconds and it sounded ok. So for sure there is something with some components in crossover.













 :lol:


eichlerera1

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #207 on: 14 Sep 2019, 04:44 pm »
Dan,

I have a pair of Hales Signature II speakers.
They feature massive external crossovers.
I've had them for close to 30 years and wonder whether the caps need to be replaced (and upgraded).
The speakers sound great but the age is a minor concern.

Have you ever worked on these puppies? (especially opening up the crossover enclosures).

Paul Galli

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #208 on: 14 Sep 2019, 05:02 pm »
Here are the pictures of the HF/MF Crossover. I also connect the tweeter to the MID connectors for a few seconds and it sounded ok. So for sure there is something with some components in crossover.

Nothing looks burned up or anything, but there is likely a failure somewhere there if the tweeter works on the mid circuit but not too well on the tweeter circuit.

If you want you can send me those crossovers and I can measure the parts on them and figure out what failed.

Then you might want to upgrade some of those caps and resistors (the resistors are real cheesy) and then re-install it all.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #209 on: 14 Sep 2019, 05:04 pm »
Dan,

I have a pair of Hales Signature II speakers.
They feature massive external crossovers.
I've had them for close to 30 years and wonder whether the caps need to be replaced (and upgraded).
The speakers sound great but the age is a minor concern.

Have you ever worked on these puppies? (especially opening up the crossover enclosures).

Paul Galli

I remember those speakers. I think they used forth order filters on everything. And they were built to a price point so the parts quality was likely fairly budget level across the board. So upgrading some of them wouldn't be a bad idea.

Post some pictures of them if you want and let's see what you have to work with.

eichlerera1

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #210 on: 14 Sep 2019, 05:56 pm »
I remember those speakers. I think they used forth order filters on everything. And they were built to a price point so the parts quality was likely fairly budget level across the board. So upgrading some of them wouldn't be a bad idea.

Post some pictures of them if you want and let's see what you have to work with.

The crossovers use 2nd order filters in a Butterworth topology.
Solen and Wondercap polypropolene caps and Solen 14 gauge air core inductors are used throughout.
Looks like Paul Hales didn't compromise on his design!

Here is Robert Harley's definitive review on this speaker if you want to learn more.
https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/791hales/index.html
https://www.stereophile.com/content/hales-audio-system-two-signature-loudspeaker-page-2

There are some great photos on google. (better than I could provide)

Not sure I need to do anything since they sound great.
Just concerned about the age of the electronics since the basic components seem top notch (for the era)...

Paul Galli

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #211 on: 14 Sep 2019, 09:20 pm »
The crossovers use 2nd order filters in a Butterworth topology.
Solen and Wondercap polypropolene caps and Solen 14 gauge air core inductors are used throughout.
Looks like Paul Hales didn't compromise on his design!

Here is Robert Harley's definitive review on this speaker if you want to learn more.
https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/791hales/index.html
https://www.stereophile.com/content/hales-audio-system-two-signature-loudspeaker-page-2

There are some great photos on google. (better than I could provide)

Not sure I need to do anything since they sound great.
Just concerned about the age of the electronics since the basic components seem top notch (for the era)...

Paul Galli

Oh yeah, I remember those. I built some speakers using those Dynaudio drivers back when I was a hobbyist.

I'd keep the inductors and just upgrade the caps, resistors, wire, and binding posts (with tube connectors). It just depends on how far you want to take them.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #212 on: 17 Sep 2019, 04:17 pm »
This weeks Tuesday Tech Talk is on this subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3x4KL9R7_g

MarvinTheMartian

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #213 on: 21 Sep 2019, 03:18 pm »
Danny:
Have you ever experimented with Sandy Grossman’s ( Golden Ear )  idea of balanced passive crossovers ?
My left brain states, can’t possibly make a difference,  but my right brain asks, can splitting the X-over function across two smaller units improve … ?
… distortion … total cost … tolerance effects … amplifier loading   …. etc. etc. etc.  darn right brain

At work I am strictly digital asic layout, so I asked our analog DAC/ADC design crew the same question.
The immediate response was definitely left brain, but one sleep later and right side alternatives started coming in.
Mostly,  Depends, Possibly …        ( Where have I heard that before? Analog will never answer with a definitive yes or no : )
… large target values vs available components  … precision of smaller values
One ‘polygon pusher’ even set up a spice simulation, but the results were inconclusive because only a ‘small signal’ driver model was available.

Left or Right ?

THX for the Tech Talk’s. Now I look forward to Tuesdays almost as much as Fridays. Shawn