[Eugene2]

I like Doug's writing style, he is very honest and has a great ear.  If you go to Audiogon, community, systems Dougs Audio Den, you'll see by the equipment he owns he knows what he is talking about.  I go there every now and again and he and I discuss equipment and cable recommendations. 
I think the article is quite appropriate and useful for those wanting to take the journey with Vapor.  To know upfront that this custom design may take quite some time and in most cases turn out as a great purchase.  If you want a speaker that is state of the art and competes with the big boys for a lot less cash Vapor is the choice but patience is very important.  If Ryan staffs up to produce at a much faster pace expect the commensurate jump in price.  The Joule could easily be priced at 50k, the Perfect Storm at $125,000.  People need to know the journey involved, and Doug did a great job writing the storyboard.
I am probably one of Vapor's first five customers, I have issues, like most, I do not air them publicly, hopefully they'll be resolved shortly, I like Ryan he is working hard to build the best product on the market at a price point that can get his art into more homes.  I do think he needs to cut down on the number of finishes offered that way he can get ahead from a manufacturing standpoint by building cabinets upfront.  The special finishes should probably be priced a lot higher.

[dex67]

yes, i agree with you...with everything. I do like Doug's style of writing. I was just saying that when I read the Nimbus review, I couldn't wait to look for funds and I contacted Vapor immediately. The review of the Joule left me wanting a little bit more...I wanted to feel like 'hmm, maybe i should trade my Nimbus for the Joule'...but I didn't get that...that's all i'm trying to say.

if i didn't like Doug's style, then I wouldn't have ended up with a pair of Nimbus Black. As for pricing...Nimbus should be at around $20-22k, Joule at about $25-27k, and the Perfect Storm at about $37-40k...with a premium for all the special finishes...

[douglas_schroeder]

Gentlemen,
God's Peace to all,

I'm going to clarify a few things here for the benefit of the community. Firstly, this was not a "contracted" review; there was no agreement beforehand for me to review the Joule White 3. I did the article simply because I felt like it. Trust me, if the speaker had not met my expectations sonically, not only would I have been pissed off at having to wait for mediocrity, I certainly would not have wasted my time writing about it. Frankly, I would have begun already to think what time period would be necessary before dumping them. Gear which gives so-so performance (or, in some cases, has been aging and is less pertinent to new systems) gets cycled out of my room.

Second, I have heard plenty of harping related to my supposed turning of the entire article to the topic of the time frame of the build out. I disagree, so I did a word count of the article. The entirety of words dedicated to the discussion of the timing is right at 20% of the article. I suggest people take some time and re-read my work before jumping to contusions. (Yes, that's contusions, not conclusions.) I said I would spend a fair bit of time on that topic, and I did. Perhaps normally 10% of an article would be dedicated to such things, and I spent twice as much time on it. So, let's calm down when we think that I made the majority of the article about the logistics of the endeavor. It is true that I made it to be a "journey", and so it was. Didn't I also indicate that the journey was worth it for me?

Now, in regards to descriptions of sound, true, you didn't see five or six statements of how I emotionally bonded with my speakers while hearing a favorite tune. Is that what sells a speaker? Perhaps? I would suggest if that's the criterion for you to buy a speaker, it's a pretty weak one. As time passes I prefer to spend my efforts discussing the particularly impactful areas of performance which will influence ALL music. The two most important, imo, things to gain mastery of in terms of the Joule White 3 are the extreme performance of the RAAL Tweeter and the Audio Technology woofer relative to the system established, so that's what I focused on for the benefit of potential buyers. The performance of the Joule White 3 is extreme, superbly nuanced and capable of scaling up indefinitely. So, if one does not get that impression from the article, let it be noted here now.

I have had the Joule White in my possession for about five months now, and all vestiges of disappointment with timing have ebbed away. I knew, as always happens, that even the review systems/performance would be thoroughly eclipsed by successive rigs. That has happened, and the joy of the speaker is firmer now than when first obtained. This is NOT due to break in, as you can consider my comments in the article. It is due to building new rigs with superior synergy and quality. Consequently, since the time of the writing of the bulk of the article I enjoy them more than ever.

If performance is the topic, upgrading from one Vapor model to the next is a "no brainer," and I am happy to report that my contentment that I did so grows with time. I also believe I pointed out in the article I was pleased with the upgrade. Perhaps because I don't gush and fall all over myself verbally my comments on a speaker are perceived as though I somehow have quiet reservations on it's performance. I don't speak for other reviewers, but I don't want a reputation of hollow, inflated claims which result in eroding my own reputation for assessment.

I don't want Pete and Ryan, or anyone else to falsely conclude that I am damning the speakers by faint praise. This is not so. I didn't bullshit the outcome, so you either believe me when I compare the sonics to the speakers mentioned, or you don't. As for me, I'm plenty happy with the Joule White 3. 

[Folsom]

Doug,

I think it would just have been nice to open with a bit more on how you like the speaker. For all the happy Vapor customers, and to be customers, I believe they want to see the past become the past; Vapor had perhaps one big mistake at some point, and a few trolls that simply want them to have a bad day that followed them around on the forums for years. It appears very obvious they've learned from that and have only worked towards becoming a better and better company. But in order to really do that, it would help for those with good experiences to be clear about it; because they come up in searches. You'll attest that they make wonderful products, work with you on many levels, and go over the top to "give you the nines" even if it extends the wait period for custom speakers (time is money). Their potential to grow to improve on every aspect and bloom into being named off hand with the big companies is tremendous, and in general around here everyone would like to see that in this community. That's why you get the concerned replies.

[Eugene2]

I guess we will all agree to disagree, I reread  the article and still think it is an accurate depiction of the buying experience, as well as the sound.  Starting on page two he begins to give a great description of the perceived differences between the Nimbus and Joule.  From what I read as the system evolved he became more and more bowled over by the Joule and his friends indicated it is the best system he has ever assembled.  Believe me that's saying a lot because he has had some great systems.  When I stated 50k for the Joule you better believe if Rockport or Magico made the Joule it would at least be 50k. 
I also believe the Joule were purchased by Doug and not a reviewers loaner, that's saying a lot, which means it will now be his benchmark...  Just sayin...
Hey Ryan hope you are feeling better, let me know where we stand...
Mike B.

[csmgolf]

Count me as one that believes that the review accurately depicts the buying experience as well as the end result. I had no doubt after reading that article that he absolutely loved the sound and the build once it was finally completed. He is 100 percent correct in that anyone that commissions a build must be able to have incredible patience with the process. If you are not capable of that kind of patience, don't go there. It will save everyone a lot of heart burn. If you can wait it out, the end result is worth it. Good job Doug, and congratulations on a great pair of speakers to compliment the rest of your system.

[maplegrovemusic]

The review scared me away after the first two pages . I could tell he loves the speakers but the seemingly negative experiences he had shown through more to me .

[mav52]

Key words here are "incredible patience " when building the first of anything

[OzarkTom]

The review scared me away after the first two pages . I could tell he loves the speakers but the seemingly negative experiences he had shown through more to me .

Same here. I could never wait over a year no matter how great they looked or sounded. Life is too short.

[Zero]

A link that some of you should check out..

http://www.sixside.com/fast_good_cheap.asp

[Folsom]

Same here. I could never wait over a year no matter how great they looked or sounded. Life is too short.

The standard models don't take that long, I don't think.

[DaveC113]

Same here. I could never wait over a year no matter how great they looked or sounded. Life is too short.

Existing models are probably much faster, and Vapor is a standout value so you're likely get less speaker with almost anyone else, especially the Nimbus, Joule and Perfect Storm... The value is off the charts and you'll spend tens of thousands more for a comparable speaker from most other manufacturers offering similar products. If I wasn't into diy I'd figure out a way to get a Nimbus black and I'd be happy to wait for it.

[dpatters]

Same here. I could never wait over a year no matter how great they looked or sounded. Life is too short.

I just thought I would chime in on build time. I own the only pair of Joule Black 2.0 ever built.  My time from order to delivery was seven months.  I picked my own veneer, paint, finish, and crossover upgrades.  I'd like to know where else I could have had this amount of custom work done (except Salk).  Yes, there were delays but aren't there always in custom projects?  I could have never gotten the customization and the level of performance for double the price so I think the amount of time it took was reasonable and believe me, once the speakers are in your room you won't think about the long wait.  It fades REALLY fast.

Don P.

[toddc2]

I just thought I would chime in on build time. I own the only pair of Joule Black 2.0 ever built.  My time from order to delivery was seven months. 

Hi Don,

Just curious, was your pair built for a show?

Todd

[dpatters]

Hi Don,

Just curious, was your pair built for a show?

Todd

Todd,

They were shown at RMAF 2014 but that wasn't the original intention.  My build was nearing completion and Ryan approached me about showing them since he got a large room relatively late.  I agreed and then the were shipped to me after the show. I was hesitant at first since I was anxious to get my speakers in house but it was only a two week additional delay and my speakers got some hours on them. I was also anxious to see how they would be received at the show since I commissioned the build having never heard a pair. Seeing the show reports was really exciting which just amped up the anticipation.

I live in Central PA so I didn't get my speakers personally delivered by Ryan.  They were shipped Pilot freight and were very well packed as described by Doug in the review.  I had two friends on hand to help me set them up and Ryan spent a good amount of time with me on the phone the day I received them.  Ryan has also followed up a couple of times in the last year just to check in and make sure I was satisfied.  Not many companies do follow up after the purchase.

Don P.

[spreadspectrum]

Some things are worth the wait, and I completely agree with Don's remarks.  Naturally, some folks may have a subjectively different opinion on how much wait is too long, and that is precisely why the understanding of the custom Vapor build process is important.  I, for one, have no problem with their build times given the quality and uniqueness of the product.

I would also like to add comments on the post build support.  Since buying my speakers, I have had continuing input from Ryan on tweaking out my listening room, including the building of custom BAD panels reported on elsewhere in this forum.  In addition, after a friend of my daughter's recently decided to have playtime with the dustcap of one of my woofers, both Ryan and Pete almost instantaneously responded with detailed instruction on removing and repairing the woofer - on a Sunday, I might add.  I can't imagine such devotion and support from many other speaker manufacturers.

Meanwhile, I am in negotiations with the parents of the involved child for indentured servitude until such a time that my emotional damages have recovered...

[pconley2]

Some things are worth the wait, and I completely agree with Don's remark

 In addition, after a friend of my daughter's recently decided to have playtime with the dustcap of one of my woofers, both Ryan and Pete almost instantaneously responded with detailed instruction on removing and repairing the woofer - on a Sunday, I might add.  I can't imagine such devotion and support from many other speaker manufacturers.

Meanwhile, I am in negotiations with the parents of the involved child for indentured servitude until such a time that my emotional damages have recovered...

Ryan (Mr.Spectrum), I too agree that some things are worth the wait, and my speakers continue to amaze and challenge me to improve my system and my room.  I can honestly say that every change I make, including moving sound baffles a few inches, makes a change in the way that my Joules (now a year and a half [very old] Joule 2.0), sound.  they are truly illuminating.

Like you, I had a mishap, a friend, someone actually in the HiFi biz was over showing me his wonderful speaker cables, which weighed quite a lot and he accidentally broke off the speaker connector to one of my Joules.  Ryan Scott sent me, quickly, new connectors, some of his solder, which was way better than what I had and complete instructions on what to do and how to do it.  Again, not the sort of support you expect from a big box speaker, but what you would expect from an artist who truly loves his art and wants to make sure that his patrons get and achieve the finest out of his art that they can get.

Phil

[a.wayne]

If the speakers being ordered are not an off the shelf model and is being developed after the initial order , 7 months- 1 yr sounds about  right for delivery...

[maplegrovemusic]

I think it boils down to this , If you have a system that is satisfying at time of order, the waiting to me would not be so important . If you do not have a system with speakers that you find enjoyable then the wait would be unbearable to me . Depends were you are at with current system .

[toddc2]

I think it boils down to this , If you have a system that is satisfying at time of order, the waiting to me would not be so important . If you do not have a system with speakers that you find enjoyable then the wait would be unbearable to me . Depends were you are at with current system .

Interesting point, I more or less agree. I've been waiting about 10 months now for my Vapors. My experience has been a roller coaster of anticipation. Early on, I was expecting a fast delivery because my pair were targeted for T.H.E. Show At Newport 2015. That didn't happen, not sure why, so I settled into a wait and see game. The occasional updates from Ryan always stir up the anticipation, but the reality of waiting for the next update quickly dampens the excitement. Fortunately, I really like my current speakers so I just brush it off and continue to wait. I ordered my speakers for my 50th birthday and I'm hoping to get them before I turn 51.

Todd