[ajzepp]

Hmmm...I have yet to hear the .7 series, so I might not be able to be as much help as I'd like to be. While I do love the ICE modules in this Peachtree driving the 3.6s, I can say that I wasn't all that crazy about solid state amplification back when I had some Outlaw Audio monoblocks and a pre/pro driving my little MMGs...it sounded very  much like what you're describing currently. Do you think maybe you just dont like the class D/ICE stuff? Maybe tubes are in order? Or even a hybrid amp like the Butler? I have had the Butler in here for literally a decade now and I could never go back to solid state (just for my preferences...I know most people in here love SS...only speaking for myself).

I have to just assume it's the gear, cause there's no way it could be the maggies...they're perfect 

Seriously though, maybe see if you can find a way to demo some tube gear...might be that using the Peachtree pre-outs to slap a tube amp on there gives you the results you're looking for?

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Before ditching the PT, strongly consider a better source.  If you have any friends that have other DAC's see if they can bring it over for a listen.

Good Luck,

Larry

[ryno]

Maybe try the analog out from the oppo, see if the DAC in the oppo is better to you than the one in the peachtree. Where are you in MN?
Ryan

[maplegrovemusic]

I also am in Mn and willing to let you try some different components if you are close by .

[mndave007]

Thanks everyone.  To answer the various questions.

The NAD D7050 amp (which is an ergonomic mess) worked with the .7s and same sources.  It uses a different digital amp (Hypex) versus Ice in the Peachtree.  It was smoother from what I can remember.

The NAD T758 receiver was plain old underpowered/withdrawn, but I do not remember it sounding this harsh.  Also tried a Marantz receiver that didn't image that well but again wasn't as harsh.

I ended up chasing power at a reasonable price.  The Peachtree DAC was well reviewed and they intentionally added the Class A tube preamp to warm the sound. 

But as many have said, the reality is the Peachtree may be a big part of the problem.  Finding electronics that the Maggies like is a bit challenging - never ran into a speaker as interesting as these.

I'll look into what I am driving them with.  I also need to really think about if I'm willing to make the investment to do it right with a solid DAC and amp.  They are awesome speakers when done right but really hard to understand how they will perform from showroom to actual room at home.  I haven't found cone speakers to be as tricky to match.

Thanks again for all the great comments.  You have an awesome community here.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Dave, I live in Woodbury MN.  You are welcome to bring your Peach Tree amp over and hear it with a warmer DAC like my Luxman and 1.6's and we can compare the sound if you live close by in MN.  I might even be able to arrainge for my friends Hugo DAC to be on hand.  I have a group of friends ( 2 of them own Maggies) here in the TC's and we compare gear all the time.  The 2 guys with Maggies, the 1.7's and 3.7's went through a couple of DAC's to get the smooth liquid non fatiguing sound.

I really think that a good stand alone DAC can solve your issue's.  I went through a tube AVA DAC, Marantz NA-11s1, Cary Audi 200ts and finally the Luxman to get the sound I wanted.

Larry

[guest61169]

Each speaker should "see" the same listening environment.  It sounds like they're not at the moment.  Stand where the speakers are and make sure of this.  If the left speaker sees a wall 3 feet away, so should the left.  You can't expect good sound if you have "a glass patio door on one side and open for 20 feet on the other side".  If you cannot acheive this, you might try another room.  Ditch the sub until you have things fixed.  Don't use cables, DACs, amps to fix room issues.   

[Photon46]

I ended up chasing power at a reasonable price.  The Peachtree DAC was well reviewed and they intentionally added the Class A tube preamp to warm the sound. 

But as many have said, the reality is the Peachtree may be a big part of the problem.  Finding electronics that the Maggies like is a bit challenging - never ran into a speaker as interesting as these.

I'll look into what I am driving them with.  I also need to really think about if I'm willing to make the investment to do it right with a solid DAC and amp.  They are awesome speakers when done right but really hard to understand how they will perform from showroom to actual room at home.  I haven't found cone speakers to be as tricky to match.

You have neatly summarized the major problem with Maggies. They are great performers for a bargain price, but they don't like bargain amplification (if you expect them to perform at their optimum.) I eventually found them to be so limiting with regard to amplification I eventually gave up on the brand. They did keep me happy for for nearly twenty years though!

As to Noway's comments regarding the room deficiencies, I found there were ways to reduce the impact of asymmetrical room boundaries. If you can get the speaker on the side close to the glass patio door at least four or five feet away from that wall, that should help in my experience. Also, if possible. try sitting closer to the speakers. The closer you get to "nearfield" listening, the easier time your brain will have separating room reflections the sound of your system. It also helps to have some heavier drapes on that glass wall. Something like Restoration Hardware's velvet drapes or Pottery Barn's linen two layer black-out drapes will help tame high frequency glare off the patio door glass. Also, get those speakers as far out into the room as you can. Unfortunately, life doesn't always give us a great listening environment 

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Having a bright or glaring midrange is not a room problem with the Maggies, it is a gear problem.  Maggies really need proper matching with amps, preamp and source, more so than most speakers.  I have gone through similar issues with my 1.6's and my MMG's which are in completely different room types.

I certainly agree that a room plays an important part and you can only do so much with a room.  But I think his issue is more than that.  I went the room acoustics route but ended up fixing my similar issues with better matching gear, especially my DAC.  A good source is a very important.  Even with my Turn Table, I had to find a good cartridge and phono preamp that matched my Magnepans.  I went with a warmer sounding Nagaoka cartridge and a tube phono preamp.

[electricbear]

At 50 to 75hrs the maggies are nowhere close to being in. They can take several hundred hours easily.  You definitely need better amplification. I have .7s running at the store using a Peachtree as a dac/pre. I run it into a Classe amp and there is no brightness what so ever.  For good inexpensive amplification try some Emotiva. We recently brought the line in specifically to allow Maggie owners to get lots of good cheap power.

[SteveFord]

It can also be (God help us all) speaker cables. 
You are blessed (or cursed) with the ability to hear differences in little things, it seems.
While you're swapping stuff around, swap out speaker wires - you might find your "glare" is in the wires.  I know this from personal experience.
Another thought is something I learned from the Crown amp tour and that is try plugging things directly into a power conditioner and then plugging things directly into the wall.  There is a difference - which one will work for you I can not say.

[kylevuong19]

Hi Dave,
To my experience, I've been running Peachtree Audio Nova 125SE with Magnepan MG12 (the previous model of your .7).
I dont have any problem with the midrange/ hardness like your experience. Absolutely love it!
If you buy the Peachtree brand new, it also need some time to burn in, as well as the .7. Give them a try in 2 more months and see if the sound changes?

[steve f]

Steve Ford may have a point about cables. Woven cables have higher capacitance than rope lay types. Could that Peachtree be unhappy with the cables plus the capacitance of the MMGs? I'm just wondering. Got some zip cord for comparison?  Just for grins.

[Davey]

Well, there is the possibility that Dave just doesn't like the sound of these speakers and no amount of musical chairing with other equipment will alleviate the issue. 
If you have the wrong set of tires on your car....changing the oil or gasoline octane or moving the seat forward is not going to fix the issue. 

The obvious solution to the problem.....which no one has mentioned yet....is to alter the crossover.  The change to a series crossover on the newer models tends to force a midrange bump into the speakers because of the interaction that didn't exist with the previous (parallel) crossovers.  Unfortunately, the tight-lipped folks at Magnepan have chosen to keep all the new crossovers a big secret so we can't easily simulate them and make relative adjustments for cases like this.

Dave.

[Rocket]

Hi,

Are you listening to audiophile must when using your system.  I notice that poor quality cd's lack dynamics and have harsh high's than compared with audiophile recorded music.  Hope this helps.

Cheers Rod

[mndave007]

Well, there is the possibility that Dave just doesn't like the sound of these speakers and no amount of musical chairing with other equipment will alleviate the issue. 
If you have the wrong set of tires on your car....changing the oil or gasoline octane or moving the seat forward is not going to fix the issue. 

Dave here 

You make a very good point.  I started my audio hobby back in the early 80s. I became friends with the owner of a high-end audio salon and started listening to everything he had.  Soon I was building Hafler Amps (still love those MOSFETs), and listening to Belles, Bedini and other great electronics.  Long story short I eventually bought Vandersteen 2cs and their first sub when it came out.

When I decided to relive my younger days I started with the current Vandersteen 2ce speakers.  The Maggie .7s were in the same room.  I was stunned and dazed at how much better the Maggies sounded.  That is what got me into the .7.  Dealer said the Maggies could be driven by most of the electronics they sold (NAD, Rega, and others).  Note it was obvious to them I wasn't into a 5K amp for $1400 speakers.

With all the quality responses here it is becoming obvious that I'm probably an old fashioned cone guy who prefers a class AB amp versus the newer digital amps. I loved the Vandersteens in their day (I think they have been passed now by many newer speakers).

Back in the old days demoing equipment at home was the norm and gave me a chance to work out the kinks.  Now higher end equipment is harder to find, equipment to demo is really hard to find.  Only Magnolia with their return policy really lets you try stuff here in Minneapolis.  I bought the Maggie's at Audio Perfection and while they are very nice folks, returns can be difficult.  I get their reluctance, but home demos are still very important since spaces are so much different.  The Maggies are much more fussy than many cone speakers I've listened to.

I'll see if Audio Perfection will take the Maggie's back with a restocking fee or something.  I think it's back to the dreaded boxes of cones!

Again - great group in this forum.  Love your passion and knowledge.

Dave

[mndave007]

Hi,

Are you using music that is audiophile standard when listening to your system.  I notice that poor quality cd's lack dynamics and have harsh high's than compared with audiophile standard.  Hope this helps.

Cheers Rod

Some was, some wasn't.  Yes - bad recordings sound bad on good equipment.  The Maggies really let you know that versus a speaker that adds a little more natural coloration/warmth.  I listened to an old Atlanta Rhythm Section album on Tidal.  It was brutal and I'm sure it was the master they used.  (Note lots has been written here about whether by amps/Maggies were fully broken in, fair comments).

That same ARS album sounds better on less forgiving speakers that lack the detail/soundstage of the Maggies. Tried it on a pair of B&W 683s and it had more life but the B&Ws do not image like the Maggies.

[Davey]

Dave,

Magnepan's "illuminate" the room in a different way than conventional speakers, and this can create an overbearing quality in some instances.  Magnepan refers to this as "total energy dispersion."  Much of this is inherent in the (large) radiation pattern of the transducers themselves and can't be alleviated.
It's possible there is no solution to your issue, but I wouldn't give up fiddling with them just yet.  I know many here would dismiss the idea out of hand, but I would consider parametric active equalization.  Many DSP units nowadays that can accomplish this.

Dave.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Dave, take me up on my offer for you to bring your Peach Tree over before you do anything.  The point about the Parametric equalizer is a good one.  If you are using JRiver it has an equalizer and a Parametric.  You might want to give it a try.  If you don't have JRiver, download the free trial version and give it a go. 


Larry

[maplegrovemusic]

At Audio Perfection where he purchased the .7's they demo maggies with either Bryston or Audio Research , or a combination of both . So the demo is usually running $10,000 worth of equipment with the speakers . Not surprised he was not as smitten with them once home and using a peachtree . But one does not need to spend $10,000 to achieve positive results . If the sound captivates one so great they will seek out a way to get the maggies to work . Takes : money , effort , patience and frustration . The last one if you go it alone . Otherwise follow the advice here and save yourself a lot of time and frustration .