Copies sound better than originals

tmd · « **on:** 22 Feb 2003, 08:53 am »

The whitepaper here really got my attention. http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/newshmfeb03set.html
I want to try this now. I was only mildly interested before. It also brings up questions I have had before that weren't ever answered adequately. Having read in there about how a CD is read, I have to think that a computer as transport has to be a fundamentally better way to go about it than a CD transport.
It was also interesting to see him use an external CD writer with isolation under it and damping on it. He used a PS Audio power plant for the whole deal also.
I'm thinking that the Norhtec PC's would work well for the burning process.
Neil.

ehider · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 06:09 am »

I've gone over and over this point, but no one seems to really follow suite so I've stopped posting. In a nutshell, you can get the same spectacular better sounding copy results by using a stand alone audio Pioneer PDR-W739 player. They go all day on ebay for less than $250, and are a bigger upgrade sonically than going from a $200 cable to a $2000 cable in the highs! If anyone reading this thread buys one of these burners, I strongly suggest they use Mitsui Cd-r blanks. I am just soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooo shocked that audiophiles will obsess all day long about little mods, tweaks and equipment upgrades, but will NOT even consider this wonder that will make their source material sound better!

HarleyMYK · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 06:27 pm »

I have had similar success with copies sounding better than the originals. I just made backup copies of the CDs that have been playing in my car. I put the backups in the car instead of the originals, and was surprised that the copies (done on very cheap media) sounded clearer and more detailed than the originals. I had the originals in my car for a while, so I was very familiar with them. I thought it was just the specific brands of media, readers, etc. and maybe the fact that the computer DVD player I used as a reader may be more exacting the car CD player. I will try and get some of the memorex black CDs next.

grub · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 05:08 am »

Hider set me up with a copy of "The Latin Side of John Coltrane" that's better than the original.......it's true, she sounds better then the "real" CD. What else can I say, more spacious, more detailed, more everything.
-->grub

starlet · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 05:13 am »

Alex burned me about 10 cds not too long ago. Though I have not heard the original discs , I must say that I am darn imprssed with the quality of the sound.

randog · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 04:18 pm »

This is an intriguing thread to me. ehider, I will search on some of your old posts to try and better understand what you've said about this since you made your response cryptic due to past posts on the subject (I'm new around here). The paper was pretty fascinating if this stuff is true, especially since I'm wading through and copying my cd's one-by-one right now mainly to protect the source since our cd's see a lot of travel and wear. Talk about time-consuming...

Randog

HarleyMYK · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 03:12 pm »

Hey randog,

Is that your Panhead? My first HD was a 48 pan with springer forks (yes, it was older than I am). Unfortunately it was stolen while I was in college.

ehider · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 09:56 pm »

randog,

If you want to read the best posts regarding copies sounding better than originals, go to Audiogon.com and search under "Burned CDs sound better than originals?". I got some excellent information when I posted this inquiry a little over a year ago.

randog · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Feb 2003, 04:44 pm »

Hey MYK, sorry to hear about your pan. I have 3 harleys the oldest a 52FL in restored condition and I've also got an 85 ironhead... future chopper project. The pic is from the '49 factory promo shot... you know those old profiles that look like photos but are actually technical illustrations (drawings).

WRT the cd copying. This post had me spend some time searching around and to my amazement it eventually led me to a firmware update to my Yamaha CRW2200 and Nero software update allowing me to add Yamaha's Audio Master Quality Recording to my current setup.

I had already burned around 40 cd's, but that's still a small percentage of my collection so I'm pretty stoked that I'm catching this soon enough. The next thing to do is to see where I can locate these 'black' cd's...

ehider, thanks for the link suggestion. I'll check that out as well.

Randog

bubba966 · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Feb 2003, 10:01 pm »

Found that TDK makes Black CDR's.
http://www.tdk.com/recmedia/cdr/specialty/index.html#

I've always had the best of luck with TDK blanks.

randog · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Feb 2003, 11:13 pm »

From the searches I've done, it looks like the "Black Diamond" cd-r's referred to in the footnote of the whitepaper are made by PNY Technologies. I'va also had good results with standard (silver) TDK's but I had terrible results with the PNY standard silver... of course up to now, I never paid much attention to burn speed, etc. Those are the only 2 brands I've tried and only in silver.

In his paper he also gives high marks to Memorex Black and that is readily available in 50 qty spindles and retails for $25.

Man, this all brings me back to the days of TDK SA-X vs Maxell XL-IIS audio cassettes I used exclusively for taping 20 years ago! Back then my preference was hell-bent in favor of Maxell.

Randog

bubba966 · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Feb 2003, 11:40 pm »

I've also not had good results with standard PNY's on the occasions that I've had to use them.

Had horrid results with standard Memorex blanks in the past. I had an 80% failure rate with them. By far the worst blanks I'd ever touched.

I'd learned it's cheaper to buy good blanks (TDK) and have zero defective media than it is to buy cheap blanks that weren't manufactured properly.

Don't do much burning anymore. But when I eventually run out of blanks I'll try picking up the black TDK's.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Feb 2003, 11:59 pm »

I've burned about 200 Memorex blanks without a single failure, both in the PC burner and my standalone home deck.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Feb 2003, 02:31 am »

I've had good luck w/Maxell, too. Never really used many TDK, maybe two dozen, but they worked well for me.

The PNY ones have given me fits, too. I've learned to shy away from a few brands that are just too cheap to be true! I tried some 'Teon' discs from Wally World and my PC wouldn't even recognize them.

Tyson · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Feb 2003, 03:00 am »

Have to agree with the poor quality on memorex - for me those things worked better as coasters than CD media - suck, suck, suck.

bubba966 · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Feb 2003, 03:04 am »

Quote from: Tyson

Have to agree with the poor quality on memorex - for me those things worked better as coasters than CD media - suck, suck, suck.

That's exactly what I used those Memorex blanks for! They do a good job there...

mgalusha · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Feb 2003, 03:35 am »

IME the Memorex blanks were terrible.

I've had a 50 pack of the black Maxell blanks for a few months and haven't had any problems with them.

FWIW I did a comparison between the Maxell black and some Imation blanks. Both were burned in AQ master mode on a Yamaha F1. Both sounded better than the original - smoother with less harshness, a more analog sound if you will. I found the black disc to provide better low level detail such as room ambience and greater image depth.

These comparisons were not scientific but I did find the results repeatable. I copied several different CD's to both types of blanks and the results were consistent.

Mike

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Feb 2003, 03:57 am »

You guys using Memorex data blanks or audio? That's freakish- out of well in excess of 200 I've never had a single incident of failure, except on that was badly scratched about 2 years after I burned it.

bubba966 · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Feb 2003, 03:58 am »

Was Memorex Data blanks for me. I'll never use them again...

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Feb 2003, 04:03 am »

Have you seen the Verbatim "Vinyl/CD-R" discs? The top looks like a mini-LP, right down to little grooves! They really look cool, and the couple I've tried so far work just fine. Mind you, I've only burned a couple, so I'll have to use the rest of the pack up to see if they all work well.