[bonzo75]

* Me wake up across the pond and scratch head. 17 posts and no real reply * 

Guys this thread is not about if a dac will be more convenient than a TT or if it is or is not a different medium. Anyone who has bought a B7 has been through many digital vs vinyl discussions. This is not another generic one.

This is not about L4, L5, Amber, Lite 7, or DSD dac, which are sonically nowhere to a B7. Easy for a TT to beat a L5 and be beaten by a B7

As specified in the first post, it is about if anyone has compared TTs to a Big 7 and what their findings are. GuF did do try a relevant comparison in Post 10, second para. More of that, please

[sfox7076]

What is needed is a B7 and a great TT in one room and then an A/B (to the extent possible). 

[Geardaddy]

What is needed is a B7 and a great TT in one room and then an A/B (to the extent possible).

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16724-Tripoint-emperor-a-breakthrough&highlight=Lampizator

 This gentleman has both the Goldengate and a walker turntable. I believe he prefers the turntable but you can ask him. He does not have an optimized server yet but I rather doubt that will change the final outcome.   He also has the Trinity dac  and server

[bonzo75]

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16724-Tripoint-emperor-a-breakthrough&highlight=Lampizator

 This gentleman has both the Goldengate and a walker turntable. I believe he prefers the turntable but you can ask him. He does not have an optimized server yet but I rather doubt that will change the final outcome.   He also has the Trinity dac  and server

Audiocrack's GG is in his secondary system, not in his primary, and he has never compared it with the Trinity (he mentioned this on WBF) and doubt he would have with Walker based on the same logic. Also his GG i fairly new and still burning in.

That said, I have compared the  B7 to the Trinity and for me the B7 was better on every track with distance increasing considerably on orchestral. But yes, Audiocrack is a good person to compare it at some point though I believe his TT set up will be super expensive. We need to find the B7 equivalent of a TT

[Geardaddy]

Audiocrack's GG is in his secondary system, not in his primary, and he has never compared it with the Trinity (he mentioned this on WBF) and doubt he would have with Walker based on the same logic. Also his GG i fairly new and still burning in.

That said, I have compared the  B7 to the Trinity and for me the B7 was better on every track with distance increasing considerably on orchestral. But yes, Audiocrack is a good person to compare it at some point though I believe his TT set up will be super expensive. We need to find the B7 equivalent of a TT

He is the obvious candidate to answer your questions, and the logistics are hardly insurmountable.  Send him a PM.  Rudolph is very personable. 

He prefers the Trinity on PCM with the caveat that he does not have a bona fide transport yet for the GG.

Most B7 owners (including the US dist and Norman) are digital only guys.  You could also answer your own question as a last resort. 

Do you feel the B7 falls short compared to higher level tables your have heard?  What does your system consist of? 

[kingdeezie]

What is needed is a B7 and a great TT in one room and then an A/B (to the extent possible).

Well, I have a decent turntable setup, not great by any stretch of the imagination.

BUT, I've been wanting to hear a Lampizator DAC, so if someone wants to send me a B7, I'll compare and write it up. 

All kidding aside, I don't think there is anything wrong with having a reference level DAC and TT setup at all.

For classical music like the OP stated is his preference, there is a ton of available vinyl both new and used, that probably would provide excellent sound quality if properly cleaned and maintained.

I also don't think the OP would have to spend 20K+ to at least match the sound qualities of the B7. Digital and analog sound inherently different, but there are varying levels of overall sound quality to be matched.

I think if you matched the price range of the B7, which I don't think is 20K, you would be sitting pretty. Off the top of my head, a Basis 2100 w/Tecnoarm, Dynavector XX-2, and a Herron Phono Stage would pretty great, and all could probably be found used for 10K or less. New, maybe 12K.

[roscoeiii]

Well, I have a decent turntable setup, not great by any stretch of the imagination.

BUT, I've been wanting to hear a Lampizator DAC, so if someone wants to send me a B7, I'll compare and write it up. 

All kidding aside, I don't think there is anything wrong with having a reference level DAC and TT setup at all.

For classical music like the OP stated is his preference, there is a ton of available vinyl both new and used, that probably would provide excellent sound quality if properly cleaned and maintained.

I also don't think the OP would have to spend 20K+ to at least match the sound qualities of the B7. Digital and analog sound inherently different, but there are varying levels of overall sound quality to be matched.

I think if you matched the price range of the B7, which I don't think is 20K, you would be sitting pretty. Off the top of my head, a Basis 2100 w/Tecnoarm, Dynavector XX-2, and a Herron Phono Stage would pretty great, and all could probably be found used for 10K or less. New, maybe 12K.

Also haven't heard a Lampi in a familiar rig, though I have heard it sound fantastic in show set-ups. But I agree that 20k+ may not be required to match the Lampi or other high dollar digital set-up. The Basis system suggested above would be a great one to compare to the Lampi. As would a VPI Classic with 3D arm, and I'd also think that my Townshend Rock 7 with a Helius or Moerch Arm would do quite well against most any high-end digital set-up. IME, these sorts of vinyl rigs are where you begin to take a big step forward in vinyl reproduction. Starting with something like the Well Tempered Amadeus (though cost-cutting steps and compromises are more evident on the Amadeus and Simplex than the other tables mentioned here).

[dminches]

But I agree that 20k+ may not be required to match the Lampi or other high dollar digital set-up.

Match in what way?  Analog and digital sound so different.

[roscoeiii]

Match in what way?  Analog and digital sound so different.

Yes, "match" may not have been the best of terms. I had something in mind like "be an analog equivalent" or something like that. Without trying to suggest that there aren't differences in digital and analog sounds...

[bonzo75]

He is the obvious candidate to answer your questions, and the logistics are hardly insurmountable.  Send him a PM.  Rudolph is very personable. 

He prefers the Trinity on PCM with the caveat that he does not have a bona fide transport yet for the GG.

Most B7 owners (including the US dist and Norman) are digital only guys.  You could also answer your own question as a last resort. 

Do you feel the B7 falls short compared to higher level tables your have heard?  What does your system consist of?

The UK Lampi distributor is also a TT guy, but he prefers the Lampi. I have compared the Lampi to a VPI classic, and both the VPI owner and I preferred the Lampi, he is going to buy one. That said, the TT world is huge. I have heard Techdas Air force One, and Goldmund reference, and they do great things, but haven't compared them.

My impressions were - that a TT is great at tonality. Lampi can match up to tonality on some well mastered recordings, but there are more masterings in digital with some glare, especially with violins, in the high frequency. On the other hand, Lampi seemed to be more airy and spacious, and precise. But my impressions are not well-studied as I haven't compared with TTs over a longer term which is what needs to be done, and one really needs to have had both in his system for that.

As for your question about my system, I first had ML Summits with AR Reference amps, and now Verity Audio Leonores. Have moved Jadis in and out of the system, now ampless for the moment.

[roscoeiii]

The UK Lampi distributor is also a TT guy, but he prefers the Lampi. I have compared the Lampi to a VPI classic, and both the VPI owner and I preferred the Lampi, he is going to buy one. That said, the TT world is huge. I have heard Techdas Air force One, and Goldmund reference, and they do great things, but haven't compared them.

My impressions were - that a TT is great at tonality. Lampi can match up to tonality on some well mastered recordings, but there are more masterings in digital with some glare, especially with violins, in the high frequency. On the other hand, Lampi seemed to be more airy and spacious, and precise. But my impressions are not well-studied as I haven't compared with TTs over a longer term which is what needs to be done, and one really needs to have had both in his system for that.

Thanks for that feedback. And we should all keep in mind that unfortunately sometimes the digital and the analog have different masterings, which for audiophiles usually comes out as an advantage for vinyl.

[advanced101]

Thanks for that feedback. And we should all keep in mind that unfortunately sometimes the digital and the analog have different masterings, which for audiophiles usually comes out as an advantage for vinyl.

I think the mastering plays an important role. 

Different Direction:
I listened to some Jazz and Rock that a guy "ripped" from vinyl using a high dollar TT and equip, then cleaned all the clicks and pops.  Encoded to 24/192, all vinyl was cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner and mechanical cleaner, then air.

Then I compared those files with hi-res 24/192 downloads.  I was surprised to find how different they sounded.  And I actually preferred the digital downloads.  Whether they were true to the source or not, they seemed to be more dynamic and the highs seemed more energetic. 

I think it is important for people to try and compare Vinyl vs Hi-res.  Vinyl sounds good... but I have found that they sound different, and I usually prefer the Hi-Res downloads.  I haven't tried DSD yet, but I am hoping there is even more ground to gain over PCM.

[sfox7076]

I have a Big 7.  I have a good turntable on order.  We will see what happens when that all shakes out.  Need to get a new phono pre though...

[bonzo75]

I have a Big 7.  I have a good turntable on order.  We will see what happens when that all shakes out.  Need to get a new phono pre though...

Great, which TT? Also, do you listen to orchestral?

[sfox7076]

AMG V12.  I do on occasion.  Depends on the mood.  I am more a Decemberists kind of listener.

[barrows]

I think the mastering plays an important role. 

Different Direction:
I listened to some Jazz and Rock that a guy "ripped" from vinyl using a high dollar TT and equip, then cleaned all the clicks and pops.  Encoded to 24/192, all vinyl was cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner and mechanical cleaner, then air.

Then I compared those files with hi-res 24/192 downloads.  I was surprised to find how different they sounded.  And I actually preferred the digital downloads.  Whether they were true to the source or not, they seemed to be more dynamic and the highs seemed more energetic. 

I think it is important for people to try and compare Vinyl vs Hi-res.  Vinyl sounds good... but I have found that they sound different, and I usually prefer the Hi-Res downloads.  I haven't tried DSD yet, but I am hoping there is even more ground to gain over PCM.

You hit the nail quite squarely on the head!  In any kind of digital vs analog comparison one has to have similar source files to be fair at all.  The best comparison would be to make a recording to both analog tape and high resolution digital (DSD or 24/192 or higher) at the same time, then compare the results.  Since analog tape is a bit limiting, theoretically, vs the best digital capture, comparing digital vs analog via an analog original source (mastertape) is not quite fair, but a good commercially available album to do this would be Shelby Lynne's "Just a Little Lovin', which was recorded to tape, mixed all analog, then one could compare the DSD version and the LP version from Analog Productions, at least then we would know the Master is the same in both cases.
From the other direction, I am pretty sure Reference Recordings has some titles available both on LP and Hrx (24/176.4 master copy) for comparison.
Comparing anything which comes from different sources is a fools errand and cannot be definitive at all.

[wisnon]

He is the obvious candidate to answer your questions, and the logistics are hardly insurmountable.  Send him a PM.  Rudolph is very personable. 

He prefers the Trinity on PCM with the caveat that he does not have a bona fide transport yet for the GG.

Most B7 owners (including the US dist and Norman) are digital only guys.  You could also answer your own question as a last resort. 

Do you feel the B7 falls short compared to higher level tables your have heard?  What does your system consist of?

A-Crack is nowhere near ready yet to do the tests you talk about Andrew. Trinity has dedicated Trinity Transport and its all emperored up. Totally burnt in. GG likely has seen no play since installation and the 2nd set of speakers are still forthcoming. 1-2 months wait to have a decent first listen. BTW, AC has 4 world class TTs, of which 2 are air-bearing…

He WILL be the man to answer all questions. Patience grasshoppers...

[sfox7076]

I don't really think that there are questions to answer here really.  It's flavors.  We all like different ones....

[wisnon]

I know, but he will say which flavours HE likes best and why...

[dminches]

I don't really think that there are questions to answer here really.  It's flavors.  We all like different ones....

Well, said.  One isn't "better" than another.  They sound different.  And even if someone says "I like my TT better than my Big 7" it doesn't mean another person listening to the same system would agree.

From my experience, people who like playing records are more passionate about the act than playing digital music.  It doesn't mean they enjoy music more, but there is a lot more effort required than to select a disk or someone on an ipad.