[autoformer]

Vinnie, are you planning to offer an upgrade path from Red Wine components to the new LIO line? I think a lot of your current Red Wine customers would welcome something like that. With the discontinuation of the Red Wine brand, I think some people are feeling a bit abandoned.

[Vinnie R.]

Vinnie, are you planning to offer an upgrade path from Red Wine components to the new LIO line? I think a lot of your current Red Wine customers would welcome something like that. With the discontinuation of the Red Wine brand, I think some people are feeling a bit abandoned.

Hi autoformer,

Thank you for your post!

Due to the factory-direct pricing of LIO, we simply do not have the margins to offer trade-ins of RWA components.  If we also sold LIO via distributors / dealers (as we have done with RWA), then we would be able to continue the trade-in program - BUT - the LIO pricing would then be at least more double of what we are selling it for under our current factory-direct model. 

We will continue to offer support for Red Wine Audio customers - that is not going to change!  So please do not feel abandoned.  I can be reached easily via the RWA forum, email, and phone.   

Thank you for understanding,

Vinnie

[brh]

I asked about this before preorders even opened up. Vinnie's response:

No.  The reason is because LIO will only be sold factory-direct (to anywhere in the world), and not via dealers or distributors.  So there
is absolutely no added margins that would allow us to take trade-ins with RWA products. 
If LIO was sold via distributors and dealers, the price would be at least 2x the factory-direct price. 

This seems fair to me. LIO punches way over its price point. It sucks, but this is the case with most tech. We're at the point where everything is pretty great, yet there's always something newer and greater on the horizon. Vinnie has committed to continuing to support (inc. batteries) RWA equipment for the foreseeable future - so what you have is still as good as what you bought. If you think LIO will be a significant improvement... sell your RWA. It's still a great piece of kit (and, likely offers some advantages over LIO - I know with Sig 16 at least, it's smaller and quieter for desktop use, and the battery brings an advantage if you're trying to test speakers or whatever with minimal breakdown/setup), and buyers should still be able to source batteries from Vinnie. If you're still happy with your RWA gear, I wouldn't worry about losing support or technically being obsolete or anything. I'm likely going to sell my RWA soon to recoup some costs, being sure to explain the situation in the process. We were lucky to ever have the upgrade path in the first place (how many other high-end audio companies offer this?), and if we lose that but gain better upfront costs... Seems like an understandable tradeoff.

Edit: Vinnie beat me to it!

[Vinnie R.]

I asked about this before preorders even opened up. Vinnie's response:
This seems fair to me. LIO punches way over its price point. It sucks, but this is the case with most tech. We're at the point where everything is pretty great, yet there's always something newer and greater on the horizon. Vinnie has committed to continuing to support (inc. batteries) RWA equipment for the foreseeable future - so what you have is still as good as what you bought. If you think LIO will be a significant improvement... sell your RWA. It's still a great piece of kit (and, likely offers some advantages over LIO - I know with Sig 16 at least, it's smaller and quieter for desktop use, and the battery brings an advantage if you're trying to test speakers or whatever with minimal breakdown/setup), and buyers should still be able to source batteries from Vinnie. If you're still happy with your RWA gear, I wouldn't worry about losing support or technically being obsolete or anything. I'm likely going to sell my RWA soon to recoup some costs, being sure to explain the situation in the process. We were lucky to ever have the upgrade path in the first place (how many other high-end audio companies offer this?), and if we lose that but gain better upfront costs... Seems like an understandable tradeoff.

Edit: Vinnie beat me to it!

Hi brh and Red Wine Audio customers:

Thank you, and I also want to mention that over the 10 years with Red Wine Audio, I have always tried my best to make the 'next design' something that our previous customers could upgrade to if they wanted to do so.

To properly execute a modular system (where we would have the internal space needed for our ultracapacitor power supply design), we could NOT continue to use the smaller Red Wine Audio enclosures (except Signature 57).  We needed to go 18" wide, and deeper.  We had to design from the ground up with a whole new way of thinking (i.e., modular, backplane, optimized routing, detection of modules, control, etc) that we simply could not add into the RWA products without a total redesign of the entire RWA line. 

Sure, we could of done that and called it a new RWA component/platform, and continued to sell via distributor and dealers.  But as I mention above, the pricing would at least double (no matter what configuration you choose with LIO).  Being that LIO is quite the evolution beyond battery via the new ultracapacitor power supply, beyond the complex way of upgrading (needing to send in your unit and waiting) due to the modular nature, and because I decided to offer it at the highest value possible, I decided that all of this called for a new brand... a fresh new beginning.  It was time!

But we will definitely continue to support our RWA customers and appreciate all their business over the last 10 years!  While LIO is new and the way we'll be going forward, we are still very proud of RWA's product line. 

Thanks again!

Vinnie

[autoformer]

Are the Renaissance upgrades still available for the Red Wine components?

[jtwrace]

Are the Renaissance upgrades still available for the Red Wine components?

Yes, sell Redwine and buy LIO.   

[Vinnie R.]

Are the Renaissance upgrades still available for the Red Wine components?

Hi autoformer,

Both Red Wine Audio components AND upgrades have been discontinued.

Best regards,

Vinnie

[jtwrace]

Hi autoformer,

Both Red Wine Audio components AND upgrades have been discontinued.

Best regards,

Vinnie

So above really is true.

[Vinnie R.]

So above really is true.

Hi jtwrace,

While what you mention above would be an upgrade, it would not be the "Renaissance Edition upgrade" that autoformer was
asking about 

Vinnie

[jtwrace]

Hi jtwrace,

While what you mention above would be an upgrade, it would not be the "Renaissance Edition upgrade" that autoformer was
asking about 

Vinnie

OK, but if there isn't an upgrade available then the only upgrade that would be available in the Vinnie Rossi designed family is the LIO.   

[Vinnie R.]

OK, but if there isn't an upgrade available then the only upgrade that would be available in the Vinnie Rossi designed family is the LIO.   

Agreed

[Rocket]

Hi Vinnie,

As long as I can get support with replacement LVP batteries I'll be totally happy.  In the future I would look at upgrading my Isabella as I like the product and the LIO modular system seems like a really good product.

Cheers Rod