A Thought for a new Hagtech product

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hagtech

A Thought for a new Hagtech product
« Reply #20 on: 28 Sep 2004, 11:43 pm »
I'll probably stick to an open-loop voltage-mode control of a dc motor.  And heres why:  There is a big issue with the speed controlled type - feedback.  You get a servo circuit that is constantly chasing its tail.

This is the classic problem with the direct motor tables from the 70's.  The feedback loop was in action, more specifically a PLL, that had minor instabilities in the audio band.  Think of it this way, you have a control loop bandwidth dead nuts in the middle of your vocals.  Speed up, slow down, speed up, slow down.  The angular velocity is always hunting.  You can play games and slow response down.  You also have a horrible time closing the loop on an unkown platter inertia.  Not to mention an elastic belt.

Making the platter super heavy will help, but the problem is always there.  Get rid of the feedback, and you will get a more constant torque.  Only modulation now is from stylus drag.  Yeah, it changes too.  But if there is one thing I've learned in audio, it's that feedback is not the best way to cure sonic ills.  Pure open-loop linearity is.

A combination of the two may work.  The PLL (integral) correction could be made to be subsonic.  That way you would be guaranteed a long-term speed stability over time.  A non-feedback system will drift over time as the bearings and motor warms up.  The temperature of the copper in the coils will change the current draw and hence torque (hotter is weaker).

What we have learned, is that a super-stable dc voltage to the motor sounds the best.  It just happens to drift a bit over stime and temperature.  Which is the lesser of evils?  The side benefit is that you have infinite control of speed.  You want 33.6rpm?  No problem.  I guess this is analogous to tube electronics.  You have to let them warm up to speed before they sound their best.

So we have our choice.  Do we want the platter to rotate exactly 2000 times in one hour?  Or have it sound good?  It's like THD disctortion figures in transistor amplifiers.  We audiophiles are a breed apart, and I think the answer for us becomes pretty clear.

jh :)

JoshK

A Thought for a new Hagtech product
« Reply #21 on: 28 Sep 2004, 11:49 pm »
My vote, no feedback just a trim pot and maybe a voltage or frequency read out would be a cool option, if doable.

Allen

A Thought for a new Hagtech product
« Reply #22 on: 4 Oct 2004, 06:53 pm »
A flexible DC half kit sounds like a winner, plus a recommendation for a quiet running DC motor (maybe a suitable pulley could be an option with the kit?) and maybe a "bundle price" to add the UFO?

This has to be a great little motor control package.

White Noise already make an AC controller kit for those Garrards, Regas Linns etc.

Mikey

  • Jr. Member
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A Thought for a new Hagtech product
« Reply #23 on: 5 Oct 2004, 02:07 pm »
Allen,

> White Noise already make an AC controller kit for those Garrards, Regas Linns etc.

Have you got a link to a website for White Noise?

Mikey

Julien43

Motor Controller
« Reply #24 on: 11 Oct 2004, 01:08 am »
>So we have our choice. Do we want the platter to rotate exactly 2000 times in one hour? Or have it sound good?<
> It's like THD disctortion figures in transistor amplifiers.<
>We audiophiles are a breed apart, and I think the answer for us becomes pretty clear.<

Yes, sound quality should always predominate over specs. I don't think that these issues would be so clear without your insight in to the parameters that need addressing. Your thoughts, so articulated, does make it a no-brainer. I'm ready to upgrade motors with a Hagetech controller!