[jtwrace]

jriggy what are you replacing them with?

[jriggy]

I have the Argos V2 now.

[audiotom]

Jason

The feeling is mutual I'm glad that you were able to find the perfect fit with the Argos

That looks like a great design and going from the older Ulysses to the V2 upgraded Argos, you have been able to lavish in the V2 upgrade.


I didn't mean to misslead anyone with the term "mellow"
It related to people who favor a bright sound

Perhaps the following is more clear

Lou's speakers may be perceived as mellow/ laid back by those who favor an overly forward / bright sound. I found  their sonic quality, resolution and engaging  character to be natural, accurate and a great listening experience.

[audiotom]

I posted a slightly edited review more appropriate for audiogon

here in the speaker reviews

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rspkr&1426366326

I will link it to a thread at some point soon

Feel free to join in and spread the news





Tom

[zybar]

Tom,

Are you using the MA-1's or the Doshi amps?  Wasn't really sure which way you went.

Both are outstanding and you can't really go wrong with either.

I have always loved Lou's speakers and have come close to buying them a few times.  The first time I heard them was at the first Rocky Mountain Show.  Not only did they sound great playing music, but Lou played his guitar through the speakers and I was simply blown away!!!   

Glad it is all working out for you.

George

[audiotom]

Hey George!

I held on to my Atmas (your Atmas)
Even if they went into semi hybernation
Having heard my friend's  M60s I knew I had to keep the amps

I recently picked up the Doshi monoblocks - a used pair at that  - which are an incredible pairing

The Atma's grain free OTL presentation is spooky

So at this time i like both options and with two preamp outs and a full set of resolving  cables i can go from one amp to the other with only a quick changing on the back of the Ulysses.

[jtwrace]

I have the Argos V2 now.

Ah OK.  So that's up the line; right?

[Tyson]

The Daedalus speakers are quite magical.  They don't overwhelm you at first.  They are not flashy.  They don't grab you by the throat.  They aren't "the best" at any specific category.  What they are is "great" at every single category in an incredibly balanced way. 

After going to RMAF for 10 years and hearing hundreds of speakers, they are 5 brands of speakers I'd personally want to own.  Daedalus is one.  It wasn't true the first year, I thought they were good but not great.  But every year their stature has grown in my judgement.  I don't think the speakers themselves necessarily made huge improvements in sound as much as I came to deeply appreciate their evenhanded musicality.

These are speakers that you can grow old with.   

[jriggy]

Ah OK.  So that's up the line; right?

I consider the Argos and Ulysses to be on the same level of performance, just built for slightly different environments --and of course the Ulysses could handle a bigger space if required. The Argos are voiced just a touch more 'romantic' (to use Lous words) and the offset tweeter gives a slightly different imaging presentation. I did not hear the U's as V2 in my room, so I can not compare them fairly, I just know, for the environment challenges I have, Lou was right, and the Argos work better for me. After a working out a way for me to demo in this space, I knew they were just right for what I needed to achieve.

[jtwrace]

I consider the Argos and Ulysses to be on the same level of performance, just built for slightly different environments --and of course the Ulysses could handle a bigger space if required. The Argos are voiced just a touch more 'romantic' (to use Lous words) and the offset tweeter gives a slightly different imaging presentation. I did not hear the U's as V2 in my room, so I can not compare them fairly, I just know, for the environment challenges I have, Lou was right, and the Argos work better for me. After a working out a way for me to demo in this space, I knew they were just right for what I needed to achieve.

Awesome. 

[roscoeiii]

Matching speakers to the room is so key.

[Daedalus Audio]

I consider the Argos and Ulysses to be on the same level of performance, just built for slightly different environments --and of course the Ulysses could handle a bigger space if required. The Argos are voiced just a touch more 'romantic' (to use Lous words) and the offset tweeter gives a slightly different imaging presentation. I did not hear the U's as V2 in my room, so I can not compare them fairly, I just know, for the environment challenges I have, Lou was right, and the Argos work better for me. After a working out a way for me to demo in this space, I knew they were just right for what I needed to achieve.

For the most part I do not build to a price point or have an intentional hierarchy of 'quality'. The line is expanding so there are a couple of different approaches but I try to see that every model is built to the highest quality.  The major differences in models is to tailor the basic Daedalus design for different applications. I tend to rank them by size and price but as has been noted there are those who prefer the Athena to the Ulysses. The choice for model isn't what is the 'best' we make but what is most suited to one's room and listening style.
I am pleased that Jason found the Argos works for his room, it is not unusual for Daedalus owners to move to different speakers in the line or to return to the line after a brief hiatus, and I take that as a great compliment. Thank You

[fwinston]

Tyson, you mentioned "I don't think the speakers themselves necessarily made huge improvements in sound as much as I came to deeply appreciate their evenhanded musicality."

I purchased my Ulysses speakers in 2008 and they subsequently went back to Lou for the all-poly crossover upgrade and then for the V2 upgrade.  With each upgrade I heard significant improvements in clarity and detail.

[Daedalus Audio]

Tyson, you mentioned "I don't think the speakers themselves necessarily made huge improvements in sound as much as I came to deeply appreciate their evenhanded musicality."

I purchased my Ulysses speakers in 2008 and they subsequently went back to Lou for the all-poly crossover upgrade and then for the V2 upgrade.  With each upgrade I heard significant improvements in clarity and detail.

Tyson, thanks for the 'appreciation', and Frank thanks for putting up with all the upgrades

I think what Tyson is getting at is there has been a consistent tonality of the speakers over the years, but Frank is right the evolution has been dramatic, with huge improvements in sonic quality while maintaining the sense of live music tonality. Many have been immediately drawn to these speakers because of that tonality while others wanted more detail etc., I would hope that people who have heard them previously will revisit them, the improvements of the last few years are not subtle.

thanks,
lou

[jtwrace]

I would hope that people who have heard them previously will revisit them, the improvements of the last few years are not subtle.

thanks,
lou

Deal.  As long as I can play my music at RMAF I'll be there.   

[dodgealum]

Great thread that really unpacks what makes Daedalus speakers special. Two things--I would just affirm what fwinston pointed out--that the system upgrades Lou has introduced over the years have resulted in a significant improvement in the sound but one that comes without any loss of the critical attributes that make Daedalus speakers unique. I began with an early pair of DA-1.1s which went back for the AP crossovers and then subsequently the V2 upgrades. I have also added the trim rings and outriggers. The original DA-1.1 was a great speaker but the upgrades have taken the sound to a whole different level. Each time I sent the speakers back to Lou I (needlessly) worried that I was going to lose the essential musicality and tonal correctness that caused me to purchase them in the first place. What came back was a speaker that retained all the things I loved and gave me so much more. Also, I think the discussion about "forward" and "laid back" is an interesting one that I have contemplated since becoming a Daedalus owner. To my ears the Daedalus speakers are among the very, very few that I have heard that manage to present the music in a "you are there" kind of way without inducing any listening fatigue. Not sure how Lou pulls this off but it is one of the critical ways in which his designs differ from other speakers that often cost much, much more. Anyway, I'm just repeating what has already been said here but this is one of the few threads I have seen that really gets at what my experience with Daedalus has been all about and why I've been a fan for so long.

[vinyl_guy]

Of course I have yet to hear a pair of Lou's speakers but I am hoping to make a trip this summer to the great Northwest and take some time to visit some Daedalus owners as well as possibly Lou.

One things for sure, it seems a lot of people end up with Daedalus speakers as their destination in this crazy hobby.

Tomy2Tone,

I am in Spokane and more than happy to have you stop in and listen to my Daedalus DA-1.1 v2, both with and without the twin BOWs if you make it to the Northwest. Just send me a PM if you are headed this way.

I must be working way too hard because I haven't checked in on this thread since the 11th and it already is 2 pages. Tom, thank you for the great review. You did an eloquent job of describing what many of us have come to know as the Daedalus sound. Others who have chimed in express many of the characteristic I fell in love with when I heard my first pair of Daedalus speakers at my first RMAF in 2005. They were the original DA-1s. I had been a B & W girl up until that point, having owned Matrix 2 and 803D Matrix speakers. I was searching for new speakers when I wandered into Lou's room. I  immediately was struck by the appearance and craftsmanship even before I heard them. My first listening impression was the tonal accuracy I heard with good detail across the full music spectrum. As those of you who know me, I am all about rock--no jazz, no classical, no opera, no hip hop. Lou graciously allowed me to play selections that ranged from Dylan & Neil Young to U2, Coldplay, The Beatles and String Cheese Incident. My budget was not yet ready for new speakers so I left Denver with Lou's speakers on my short list.

I returned to RMAF the next year ready to purchase new speakers and spent quite a bit of time in Lou's room listening to lots of different music from acoustic to hard rock. I wanted to make sure what I heard the year before was what I wanted in new speakers. Before the show was over, I bought the show demos in Cherry. Once in my system, I knew I had made the right choice. They were superior to the B & Ws in tonal accuracy, detail, dynamics, imaging, and bass. The mid range was comparable. And as many have stated ITT, they are absolutely non-fatiguing.

I was completely satisfied until I heard the DA-1.1s at RMAF in 2007. I ordered a pair of DA-1.1s before the show was over. They did everything the DA-1s did, just better, especially in the midrange and low bass extension. I like the offset tweeters that provide a wider sweet spot. I needed to sell my DA-1s and it turned out my golf instructor/coach is an audiophile and a huge Zeppelin fan. He had a Cary tube amp & pre amp and Polk Audio speakers. I talked him into taking the DA-1s and spend some time listening. He did, but told me he couldn't afford them. Then he called me and said he didn't realize how good the DA-1s were until he put the Polks back in his system and we made a deal where he paid me over time and in working on my swing and short game. A win-win solution and I didn't have to ship them.

Since then I have faithfully incorporated each upgrade from the all poly crossover (audible improvement) to the v2 upgrade (huge audible improvement) to the Trim Rings (audible improvement). If you have an older pair of Lou's speakers and haven't had them upgraded, especially the v2 upgrade, stop what you are doing and send those speakers back to Lou immediately. Your ears will thank you for the rest of your life.

A couple of years ago, I added a pair of BOWs. They really are foundational and not only add to the excellent low end extension of the DA-1.1s, they allow the highs and midrange to come into focus even better than before with improved clarity and detail. They also deliver when the music contains the low note on a Hammond B-3.

I have heard every model in the Daedalus line and they all bear the trademark of tonal accuracy, great dynamics, easy to drive, exceptional detail and clarity. They give you a "you are there" live music presentation. They are speakers for life.

Over the course of the last 10 years, Lou and I have become good friends (despite being polar opposites politically ). He is a great human being, a great craftsman and a great friend. He stands behind his product and really appreciates his customers.

Great thread!

Laura

[Tyson]

The Daedalus speakers are quite magical.  They don't overwhelm you at first.  They are not flashy.  They don't grab you by the throat.  They aren't "the best" at any specific category.  What they are is "great" at every single category in an incredibly balanced way. 

After going to RMAF for 10 years and hearing hundreds of speakers, they are 5 brands of speakers I'd personally want to own.  Daedalus is one.  It wasn't true the first year, I thought they were good but not great.  But every year their stature has grown in my judgement.  I don't think the speakers themselves necessarily made huge improvements in sound as much as I came to deeply appreciate their evenhanded musicality.

These are speakers that you can grow old with.   

I got several PM's that asked me what my other top 5 RMAF speaker favorites are after hitting the show for 10 years, so I thought I'd post them here - the Daedalus Athena, TAD Reference One, Serenity Acoustics Super 7, Mockingbird Audio LSX and the Vapor Nimbus.  I know that's tilted heavily to AC vendors, but IMO the vendors here on AC really are a step up over the rest. 


There are a few others that are also quite good but not at the very top level of the above speakers that I wouldn't mind owning that I've heard - the Focal Grand Utopia, the Sonus Faber Amati Stradivari Homage, the Estelon X-Diamond, the Odyssey Kismet, the King Sound King III, Emerald Physics EP-X, and the Zellaton Studio Reference One are all outstanding.  But not as good as the Daedalus Athenas, IMO.  Add to the fact that most of those other brands are veneered or painted MDF and the Daedalus speakers are solid hardwood and it's clear which would be my top choice if I ever went back to a box speaker. 

[audiotom]

Vinyl lady

Thanks for the compliments and great audio progression.  I enjoy your postings here. I bet your golf pro is looking to give a few more lessons.  Tee two for V2 anyone?

 As nice as rock is to test a speaker in all it's various splendor, well recorded minimally mic'd spatial performances in jazz and classical can bring a scary sense of tonality and imaging.  Some older than 65 years

I appreciate everyone's comments and enthusiasm in this thread

Tom.