[Phil A]

Here is how I see this whole system when done.

Amplifiers: Odyssey Audio Kismet Extremes Monos in Stratos Case (Left, Right Channels), Kismet Extreme in Khartago Case (Center Channel), Kismet Extreme Stereo in Khartago Case (Rear Channels)
Speakers: Perfect Storms (left and Right) Matching Perfect Storm Center Channel ( working out the details), Build another set of the top ends of the Perfect storms and put them on stands for the Surrounds, Get Vapor to design 2 Subs to complement the system.
Preamp: Bryston SP-3
Digital: Audio by E – Silenzio AE-S2.5 high performance media server, Synology DS415+ setup by Audio by E
Cables: ZenWave Audio all around
Power Conditioner: SurgeX SEQ - ZenWave Audio Edition
Isolation: Stillpoints under everything

I forgot, I have GIK coming down to give their 2 cents on the room.  I am sure they will have some solutions.

Great system!!

[Eugene2]

Your system should sound amazing, Klaus should be close to finishing my upgrade also.  The Zenwave surge X is excellent, I also added some Akiko AC enhancement.  I am using an Antipodes DS Reference as a music server with PS Audio DS DAC micro dynamics through Vapors is nothing short of breath taking, should go up another notch once the Odyssey amps and preamp show up!  Looking forward to your impressions once completed!

[Chrisandalex1]

Here is how I see this whole system when done.

Amplifiers: Odyssey Audio Kismet Extremes Monos in Stratos Case (Left, Right Channels), Kismet Extreme in Khartago Case (Center Channel), Kismet Extreme Stereo in Khartago Case (Rear Channels)
Speakers: Perfect Storms (left and Right) Matching Perfect Storm Center Channel ( working out the details), Build another set of the top ends of the Perfect storms and put them on stands for the Surrounds, Get Vapor to design 2 Subs to complement the system.
Preamp: Bryston SP-3
Digital: Audio by E – Silenzio AE-S2.5 high performance media server, Synology DS415+ setup by Audio by E
Cables: ZenWave Audio all around
Power Conditioner: SurgeX SEQ - ZenWave Audio Edition
Isolation: Stillpoints under everything

I forgot, I have GIK coming down to give their 2 cents on the room.  I am sure they will have some solutions.

So I am curious what Subwoofer setup would go best with this system. 

[Phil A]

So I am curious what Subwoofer setup would go best with this system.

If you need a sub at all, probably something top notch.  Perhaps a Rel Gibraltar?

[Vapor Audio]

If you need a sub at all, probably something top notch.  Perhaps a Rel Gibraltar?

The bass from the Perfect Storm would, I'd wager, obliterate that from the Rel.  The woofer in the PS is on a whole different level, the cabinet construction and design is another level.  A JL Gotham or Velodyne DD 18 might give more impact, but sincerely doubt they'd have the tonal density or definition.  All I can think of that would match the PS bass AND give more impact/scale would be something like a Precision Devices 21" or 24" in a HUGE transmission line cabinet and around 4000 watts. 

[Chrisandalex1]

The bass from the Perfect Storm would, I'd wager, obliterate that from the Rel.  The woofer in the PS is on a whole different level, the cabinet construction and design is another level.  A JL Gotham or Velodyne DD 18 might give more impact, but sincerely doubt they'd have the tonal density or definition.  All I can think of that would match the PS bass AND give more impact/scale would be something like a Precision Devices 21" or 24" in a HUGE transmission line cabinet and around 4000 watts.

Now that sounds like fun.  Although it also sounds like the size of an end table. 

Would it fit inside an area 29L X 22W X 24H?

[Vapor Audio]

Now that sounds like fun.  Although it also sounds like the size of an end table.

Probably something on the order of 4' tall, 3' deep, and 2.5' wide ... that driver needs a lot of volume to deliver what they're capable of.

[Chrisandalex1]

Probably something on the order of 4' tall, 3' deep, and 2.5' wide ... that driver needs a lot of volume to deliver what they're capable of.

LOL you beat me to it.  I needed to get a measuring tape.

That is too big for my wife to accept.

[Phil A]

LOL you beat me to it.  I needed to get a measuring tape.

That is too big for my wife to accept.

Put a clock dial on it and tell her it is a grand grandfather clock

[Eugene2]

Wouldn't you be better off with Ryan building two subs with the same 15" driver and powered by a class D amp?

[Vapor Audio]

Wouldn't you be better off with Ryan building two subs with the same 15" driver and powered by a class D amp?

The Perfect Storm bass section is 36" tall, 28" deep, and 20" wide.  About 5" of the depth is for the crossover chamber too, so a standalone sub with the same transmission line would be 5" less deep.  I haven't modeled the Precision Devices 21" woofer yet, but imagine it would need about 12-15 cu/ft of volume ... the Perfect Storm bass section is a bit over 6 cu/ft. 

[Chrisandalex1]

I think one of the things I need to consider is that when I was building this system for my Von Schweikert speakers, the subs were to be run with signal sensing cables off the bass cabinets of the left and right speakers.  This design would be used pretty much all the time, music or movies, and to make them like an invisible integration with the speakers neutralizing room nodes.   

With the Perfect Storms this is not really necessary.  The subs would be more for watching movies. 

I am very confused right now on the best way to proceed. 

[neekomax]

Why would you not have room modes with the new speakers? Seems to me that a distributed array of some sort would be desirable.

Looking forward to seeing the new design, btw.

[Vapor Audio]

I think one of the things I need to consider is that when I was building this system for my Von Schweikert speakers, the subs were to be run with signal sensing cables off the bass cabinets of the left and right speakers.  This design would be used pretty much all the time, music or movies, and to make them like an invisible integration with the speakers neutralizing room nodes.   

With the Perfect Storms this is not really necessary.  The subs would be more for watching movies. 

I am very confused right now on the best way to proceed.

My advice, one step at a time.  Get the Perfect Storms and see if you want more or not. 

[Tyson]

I think one of the things I need to consider is that when I was building this system for my Von Schweikert speakers, the subs were to be run with signal sensing cables off the bass cabinets of the left and right speakers.  This design would be used pretty much all the time, music or movies, and to make them like an invisible integration with the speakers neutralizing room nodes.   

With the Perfect Storms this is not really necessary.  The subs would be more for watching movies. 

I am very confused right now on the best way to proceed. 

You can set your HT processor to run the front 2 channels full range, and the center/surrounds to route the low frequency (LFE) to a sub (or subs).  For 2 channel you can just run the front 2 speakers full range. 

[Vapor Audio]

Why would you not have room modes with the new speakers? Seems to me that a distributed array of some sort would be desirable.

Looking forward to seeing the new design, btw.

I'll likely be visiting Chris shortly after delivery and taking some measurements in his room, and hopefully implement some bass treatments to get the decay times even and controlled.  IMO that has to be done before any bass solutions are decided upon, nodes still exist with distributed arrays.  Eliminating them first and controlling the rooms energy storage is the best way to be sure of success.

[Chrisandalex1]

I am sure I will have room nodes.  However, what I don't know is if the little VS Shockwave V-10 subs are the answer.  I am sure with the VS speakers they would be awesome, but I want a much higher level of performance than the little VR4jr's are capable of delivering.

So what I don't know is, what nodes I will have, what solution is best for them then with the much bigger and higher quality of the Perfect Storms, and how best to determine this.

I think Ryan is probably right, but I just like to try to understand the end result. 

I just spent a lot of money going down one road, and have now gone a total different direction.  It is ok, as I have other uses for the VS setup, but I prefer to have a solution in mind.

[Vapor Audio]

I am sure I will have room nodes.  However, what I don't know is if the little VS Shockwave V-10 subs are the answer.  I am sure with the VS speakers they would be awesome, but I want a much higher level of performance than the little VR4jr's are capable of delivering.

So what I don't know is, what nodes I will have, what solution is best for them then with the much bigger and higher quality of the Perfect Storms, and how best to determine this.

I think Ryan is probably right, but I just like to try to understand the end result. 

I just spent a lot of money going down one road, and have now gone a total different direction.  It is ok, as I have other uses for the VS setup, but I prefer to have a solution in mind.

Room first when it comes to bass, fortunately room treatments are FAR less expensive than the other moving parts.  Any room with walls is going to have nodes based purely on the geometry.  Measure before to find out where the nodes are, create and implement a game plan, then measure again to see if they had the desired effect.  Data is always your friend, unless you just enjoy chasing your tail and throwing money around 

[Chrisandalex1]

LOL,

Patience has never been one of my virtues.  This is why I have a garage full of shit I used once or twice and then never again. I also have art under just about every bed in the house.  So yes, I tend to throw money around.  Sometimes with success, most times with the need to throw some more

In this case, I am going to try to learn from my mistakes and exercise some self control.  I want to get it right this time. 

[dex67]

why would anyone need a sub with those Perfect Storm speakers? From the description it looks like they're bigger and they go lower than my Nimbus Black...and I don't need a sub...those Nimbus hit me in the chest with a full orchestra force when i play Mahler Sym 1...