"Can Omegas play loud?"

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Guy 13

Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #20 on: 17 Feb 2015, 02:22 am »
Hi all,
my Omega 7F Open Baffle Dipole are 93dB efficient.
I have a Decware SE84C+ SET that can put out 2wpc,
therefore the music would be 96dB (??) at one meter,
but I am sitting at 2 meters away from the speaker,
so that would put into my ear about 93db,
that's quite loud and it's loud enough for me !
Considering that the normal and safe for the ears listening level is around 80dB,
then I will say: Yes, the full range driver can play loud, how loud?
Loud enough for most Audio Circle members.
Please feel free to make any corrections on the numbers above.

Guy 13

srb

Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #21 on: 17 Feb 2015, 02:40 am »
my Omega 7F Open Baffle Dipole are 93dB efficient.  I have a Decware SE84C  SET that can put out 2wpc,
therefore the music would be 96dB (??) at one meter, but I am sitting at 2 meters away from the speaker,
so that would put into my ear about 93db, that's quite loud and it's loud enough for me !

Even without factoring in any possible room gain from boundary reinforcement, you are of course quite right that each doubling of the 1 meter distance would attenuate the output by - 3dB at the listening position.  But what is sometimes overlooked is that the sensitivity specs apply to a single speaker, and a stereo pair would add + 3dB back into the equation!

Steve

Guy 13

Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #22 on: 17 Feb 2015, 03:02 am »
Even without factoring in any possible room gain from boundary reinforcement, you are of course quite right that each doubling of the 1 meter distance would attenuate the output by - 3dB at the listening position.  But what is sometimes overlooked is that the sensitivity specs apply to a single speaker, and a stereo pair would add + 3dB back into the equation!

Steve

Hi Steve,
yes, two driver will increase the output, sorry, forgot to mention that.
Thanks.
One other thing: The 93dB specs is for what frequency or frequencies?
Is that an average over the whole frequencies the driver can reproduce
within plus or minus 3dB ?
Anyway, the original post should have asked:
Can a fullrange driver reproduce, let's say:
95dB at 1 meter with one watt?
If 95dB is very loud for that person.

Guy 13

srb

Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #23 on: 17 Feb 2015, 03:22 am »
The 93dB specs is for what frequency or frequencies?

Typically it's at 1KHz, but because that's not always necessarily the case as well as perhaps other testing differences, I view it as more of a ballpark than an absolute.

On occasion I've compared two speakers with the same 8 ohm nominal impedance on an amplifier with A-B speaker connections and a few times I found an "87dB" speaker to be noticeably louder than an "89dB" speaker or an "89dB" speaker to be louder than a "91dB" speaker.

Steve

McNubbins

Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #24 on: 17 Feb 2015, 03:38 am »
Anyway, the original post should have asked:
Can a fullrange driver reproduce, let's say:
95dB at 1 meter with one watt?
If 95dB is very loud for that person.

Guy 13
Hi Guy 13. If you're referring to the original post which opened this thread, I was being a little facetious when I posted about a neighbour knocking on my door to tell me I was playing music too loudly. I appreciate numbers and they helped me in my decision to buy Omegas (I bought a dB meter and did a lot of calculations before buying my amp and speakers), but I wanted to post some real world experience that anyone would be able to relate to.

Guy 13

Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #25 on: 17 Feb 2015, 09:58 am »
Hi Guy 13. If you're referring to the original post which opened this thread, I was being a little facetious when I posted about a neighbour knocking on my door to tell me I was playing music too loudly. I appreciate numbers and they helped me in my decision to buy Omegas (I bought a dB meter and did a lot of calculations before buying my amp and speakers), but I wanted to post some real world experience that anyone would be able to relate to.
Hi McNubbins,
from my testings I found out that close listening reduce the watts needed
for a good/enjoyable listening.
Now I must say that I do not have problems with my neighbors,
because I have no nearby neighbors
and my listening room is built with 12" reinforced concrete,
even my wife one floor under barely hear the music.
Here is my set up anyway:
Sitting position 4' from speakers.
4.5' between the two speakers.
6.5' behind the speakers,
because they are Open Baffle Dipole, so they need space.
My listening room is 12' wide, 13.5' long and 9' high.
If I had to do it all over again, I would go again with Omega (93dB)
with this time a 6wpc Decware amplifier and a pre-amplifier, some recording (CD) are recorded below average, so with my 2wpc, with those recording I need to push the Decware 2wpc to it's maximum, therefore, missing headroom.
For the subwoofer, that's really a matter of how do you like bass, how loud you like your bass, but for me, I could not live without sub woofers, however, with Omega floor stander and some lite music like jazz at reasonable listening 80 to 85dB subs are not a must.I bought a frequency generator and a dB meter from Amazon and did my tests, it's not the best way, but I does tell you a little more that having nothing to test.
I hope this help.

Guy 13
All the above comments are based on my experiences and my liking.




 

McNubbins

Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #26 on: 28 Feb 2015, 08:48 am »
Just an update for anyone else in a thin-walled apartment type situation.

I'm going to order a pair of IsoAcoustics stands. They're usually used with studio monitor/bookshelf type speakers, but they have stands big enough for floor standers or subwoofers too. I've seen them recommended on here for Omega monitors on desks. The idea, for those who don't know, is to disconnect the speaker from the surface it's resting on so the surface doesn't interact with your speaker and colour your sound as much.

I'm less interested in how much better my system will sound than getting some of the vibration not to go right through the floor into the apartment below me. I'll let you guys know how much less vibration I feel in the floor and how it changes the sound of my setup.

In the meantime, my headphone rig is getting a workout.

mresseguie

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Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #27 on: 28 Feb 2015, 09:23 am »
Hi, McNubbins.

I've known about the IsoAcoustic stands for a while, but haven't tried them yet. I'm interested in how they work for you. Looking forward to your impressions.

Michael

McNubbins

Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #28 on: 4 Mar 2015, 02:06 pm »
Well, I emailed IsoAcoustics about what stand would be best and a gentleman named Dave replied within a day advising me that the ISO-L8R200 would be the stand to get.

I opted for the ISO-L8R155. It's only rated up to 30lbs. speaker weight so the 3XRS is right on the edge, and maybe even a bit too heavy (but I did glimpse a recommended speaker in a compatibility chart that was over 30lbs, so...). I didn't get the ISO-L8R200 for two reasons: I didn't want the stand to be bigger than the bottom of the speaker (Check out the site: there are only four little rubbery pads that touch the bottom of the speaker) and because of a lowest stand height of 3 vs 4 inches. I have a legless floor couch that I do most of my listening on, so lower is better for me. These are also small enough that I could put monitors on them in the future.

Looking back, I think either one would work depending on what you care about more. Because I have ignored IsoAcoustics' professional advice, I hereby promise not to bother them if something goes horribly wrong.

I don't have any tilt dialed in because the platforms are a little small. They cover maybe 3/4 of the bottom of the 3XRS. Everything on the stand touching another surface is all rubbery and squishy though, so they absorb some shock if you bump into them. Unless you really fall into the speakers they're not going to tip over. They are probably less stable than on the factory spikes.

Before I talk about sound you have to remember that the signature XRS tilt is gone, and the speakers now sit a couple inches little higher. In my unscientific mind, having the speakers a little higher but not tilted up would even everything out.

On the stands, they sound clearer. I and my non-audiophile girlfriend noticed instantly--the other speaker was still on its spikes. Clarity and fine detail, especially at low volume, texture and a sense of depth are all improved in the same position as they were before (keeping in mind the setup caveats mentioned above). It's significantly easier to understand people's speech while watching TV or movies because of that increased clarity. There does seem to be a small, but noticeable, reduction in bass, but what remains is tighter and more precise.

I do also notice a lot less sound being shunted into the floor compared to the spikes, though time will tell if this is enough for the other residents of my building. For now, I've made the adult choice: a tiny bit less bass quantity for increased clarity across the frequency range. I haven't actually run test tones with the SPL meter to see if low end extension has changed, but since I got in trouble for doing those last time, I'm not sure if I will...

Audiophile58

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Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #29 on: 12 Apr 2015, 02:22 am »
Even though these comments are a couple months old I would like to add after owning every type of speaker on the market except a mbl type omni directional. Unless the speaker is a large speaker with big powerfull woofers in a sealed chamber I always feel a power subwoofer is a plus .even with floorstanders
This takes a big load off the amplifier as well as the main speaker.now regarding the Omega speaker
My Outlaw open baffle 1.5 with sub now crossing over high around 90 hz which is the seamless Threshhold allows the main speaker to run much more at ease and I achieve peaks at 101 db that is it's max but for Outlaw drivers this is substantial.
The new 7s you are talking over 106 db spl .over 90 db for extended listening lengths of time is permenant
Hearing loss.these  will compete with most speakers  and with the subwoofer you have a true
Full range speaker from midbas on up single drivers purity is second to none it is phase as well as time coherent with no complex crossover to distort the original music signal.

Audiophile58

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Re: "Can Omegas play loud?" - understated
« Reply #30 on: 27 Apr 2015, 08:58 am »
I have been in this field for over 40 years as an Audiophile .,buying magazines like
Stereophile,and The Absolote Sounds -Brain washes you in a sence .it is all about $$$ Money BIG
Multi driver speakers are the Big Sell ,With Big amplifiers to drive them. 

How Loud do you want to go ? Until you are deaf , Would thst be loud enough?

I have a SPL meter my 1.5 open baffle  Omega Outlaw speakers  in my large 24 x14 room I was playing
Between 98 and 101 db levels for a short time  just to see the results , so loud I have to scream  to communicate  to the guy 3 ft away from me.

It is a fact anything over 90 db on a steady basis you will loose parts of their hearing within a few years.
With hearing There Is No Warrning  it just dissapears.  You will rarely see Omega speakers in the Big flashy magazines. I know first hand that $$ money for advertising leads also to much more favorable reviews.
Omega speakers  are very Understated  but can rock and roll Without question, with a subwoofer even more so
 Don't judge a book my it's cover !!

JLM

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Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #31 on: 28 Apr 2015, 02:02 pm »
Sound is nothing more than peaks (versus a steady hum).  Some peaks are very short, others more extended.  Easy for amps or speakers to handle steady signals (most specifications are based on 1,000 Hz steady signals).  Those steady signals are simple sine waves, like a car on a straight/flat road.  But music is made up of complex combinations of peaks that are much harder on amps and speakers.  Pushing amps too hard result in clipping (chopping off the peaks) what can cause driver damage as it tries to follow the signal that suddenly stops and starts (worse than your car repeatedly going from 0 mph to 100 mph back to 0 mph and repeat versus a steady 50 mph).  Stated peaks range from 10 dB (rock) to 30 dB (classical).  So yes, while many report listening to moderate (average) levels, it doesn't reflect the nature of music.

There is debate as to just how high peak sound pressure levels reach.  As a sampling most say 105 dB for classical/jazz with rock has more sustained peaks of 110 dB (others say 120 - 130 dB, but that makes for a near impossible situation as can be seen below).  While speaker efficiencies are measured at one watt and at one meter distance, few of us listen that close.  While we typically listen with 2 speakers (that adds 3 dB), the overall residential room losses normally range from 3 dB (small room) to 9 dB (large/open space).  So to recreate realistic sound pressure levels, speakers should be able to reach 105 - 116 dB/w/m.  For Omega speakers that have 93 - 95 dB/w/m efficiencies they would have to handle 10 - 23 dB of gain (10 - 200 watts per channel).  It's a stretch to imagine any Omega handling 200 watts of clean power.  OTOH moderate listening levels (70 - 90 dB) require less than 1 wpc for Omega speakers.

So in the real world compromise is needed.  Small rooms help, but impose on the intended sound with muddying what arrives at the listener with first reflections and unintended bass reinforcement.  Turning down the volume is the obvious solution, but that is not true to the original performance, and isn't that why we spend serious coin/effort at all this?  And if a more typical speaker efficiency of 86 dB/w/m is plugged in (note that many manufacturers inflate this specification), the above numbers become even less realistic.  Using a near-field setup helps with reflections and volume but only to a degree.  Going with a tube amp that "soft clips" helps, but you're losing dynamic peaks.  Sticking with "little girls with guitars" and giving up on rock or symphonic genres is another solution, but again is that what we're investing in this pursuit? 

I'm not a headbanger, but a 40+ year veteran in the stereo/audio quest.  I listen at moderate levels, but don't want to compromise any more than anyone else.  So I try to choose my compromises wisely.  As always, there is no perfect speaker.  Can Omega play loud?  It really takes facts, not speculation or antidotes, but someone to tell us just how much power they can safely handle on a range of musical material (as bass heavy stuff would be a stiffer test) and then we can plug in distance/room size/material parameters to determine for each of our circumstances to really determine "how loud". 

RDavidson

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Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #32 on: 28 Apr 2015, 02:26 pm »
Well said, JLM. Yes, understanding power handling would be helpful at least to some of us.....if anything, just to help us protect our precious drivers.

Louis O

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Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #33 on: 28 Apr 2015, 06:21 pm »
Hi All,

Thanks and these play louder and I will be expanding this concept. This particular model is 100dB. Surface area combined is about the size of a 9" driver. Easily capable of deeper bass in a Floorstanding configuration.



Thanks again,
Louis


steve f

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Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #34 on: 28 Apr 2015, 06:35 pm »
Hi Louis,

Is that a 4 Ohm speaker?

steve

Bill O'Connell

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Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #35 on: 28 Apr 2015, 06:44 pm »
It is a 4 ohm speaker as I'm using them with a 8 watt amp at the moment.
  I only have 25 hours on them as of today but superb but I haven't pushed them at all, not even 1 watt worth and they go plenty loud.

Louis O

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Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #36 on: 28 Apr 2015, 07:10 pm »
Hi steve f,

Thanks and it's 4 ohm, but an easy 4 ohm. I've use them on all my tube amps and no trouble at all. If this concept goes forward in a set line I will consider building 16 ohm drivers to get the system into 8 ohm rating.

Hi Bill,

Great news and they were terrific with your 8 watt integrated. Combo was superb and I never went pass 11 o'clock on the dial.

Thanks,
Louis

myaudioforsale

Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #37 on: 2 May 2015, 12:44 pm »
Hi Bill,

I recently spoke with Louis, and I'm close to going with the Outlaw speaker you have.  How would you describe the weight and presence in the upper bass/lower mids?  As I told Louis, I'm looking for a pair of speakers that sound convincing with kick drum, the low tom, and low end of the Cello.  Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards,

Michael

JLM

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Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #38 on: 2 May 2015, 01:58 pm »
Hi Bill,

I recently spoke with Louis, and I'm close to going with the Outlaw speaker you have.  How would you describe the weight and presence in the upper bass/lower mids?  As I told Louis, I'm looking for a pair of speakers that sound convincing with kick drum, the low tom, and low end of the Cello.  Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards,

Michael

Which Outlaws?  And why Outlaws?

You're looking at frequencies down to 50 Hz.  By Louis' numbers any of the 6 inch or 7 inch monitors/towers and the 3XRS would work, so I suppose any of the Outlaws would work too.  But beyond the numbers, bigger drivers push more air, which is important for "convincing" bass.

myaudioforsale

Re: "Can Omegas play loud?"
« Reply #39 on: 2 May 2015, 10:25 pm »
JLM - I'm referring to the speaker on the stand in the photo that Louis added a few posts up.  Those are the speakers that Bill is referring to in his post.  It's the speaker that Louis said would be the best for what I'm after.  I just wanted to get Bill's perspective as his set breaks in.

Michael