Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting

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mcbuddah

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Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« on: 27 Jan 2015, 03:51 am »
I just got a beautiful used pair of Genesis 6.1 speakers. There are no mounting holes for cones/etc. The original owner
just put them on carpet but never was able to get the best out of them.  According to the white papers on their web site on the
topic of speaker setup, it is recommended to wring the most from any speakers, the actual positional geometry in any plane can and should be
made by listening after adjustments of as little as 1/10", with musical selections to illustrate what can change when not sounding correct.

Being retired with too much time on my hands, but owning a few laser measuring tools, I am determined to give it a try. These outriggers with the big height
adjustment handles looks like just the ticket, but I am not convinced that their spiked cones cones are really the best possible way to go. The speakers weigh
135# each and their electronics package rides in the rear just above the speaker bottom. This package is a plate amplifier on steroids, including all crossovers plus
a 500w class D amp and a servo mechanism to control a pair of 12" side-firing woofers that are also at the bottom, just forward of the electronics. I am concerned that
all the side to side shaking from the woofs will not be reduced by floor-spiking alone. These speakers are ruthless in showing off setup and
equipment problems upstream. Any suggestions would be appreciated.



   

Herbie

Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #1 on: 27 Jan 2015, 04:08 am »
A Giant Cone/Spike Decoupling Glider under each of the outrigger spikes should do very well. Also "Thin" Fat Dots between speaker cabinet and outrigger if the cabinet is not bolted to the outrigger.

Steve
Herbie's Audio Lab

ACHiPo

Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #2 on: 27 Jan 2015, 04:34 am »
Mc,
Nice speakers!  The outrigger idea seems like a good one.  I've used cones/spikes for years, albeit not with active speakers, but it should be ok.  Check with the mfg if concerned.  The outriggers only appear to have adjustability in one axis, though?

AC

mcbuddah

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Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #3 on: 28 Jan 2015, 01:47 am »
AchiPo, These outriggers support individual vertical height settings from each corner. The real trick is to know what effects to listen for
when they are adjusted. The link below is to a white paper written by Genesis' Gary Koh that details ten different adjustments that can be made
to achieve specific changes to the establish and maintain the best possible output when setting up speakers in a room. Hi-rez musical selections are
indicated in each section with instructions on what to listen for when setting up the room. Reading through the paper brought to mind the old-fashioned
computer monitors that plagued all our desktops before the age of thin hi-def monitors. In the day of monitors, they had controls to allow users to fine-tune the
screen image to correct for barrel-shape, too tall, too short, cocked, concave, etc. This paper seems to be a guide to making the same type of changes to the
audio image that a hi-fidelity system can achieve. Several of these parameters require the ability to raise/lower anywhere from 1 to 3 corners of either one or both speakers
in small increments. Having only 3 days with them so far, I am nowhere near ready for that kind of critical listening yet, but so far, I do know that they are extremely accurate and
transparent and they can spotlight everything that is wrong with the system and its setup. FWIW, there is a list of over a hundred major speaker manufacturers listed on
Sondocity's web site that either include, offer as an option, or present thair products at shows with their outriggers. Genesis is on that list.

Herbie, thanks for the advice. I will be most likely mounting the outriggers directly to the speaker bottoms. I will be putting in an order for the gliders soon.
 

mcbuddah

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Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #4 on: 16 Mar 2015, 10:48 pm »
Herbie, just thought I would let you know that I sent you an order for 8 titanium Giant cone/spike gliders for this upgrade. I had trouble with paypal, so I Priority Mailed it to your Texas address with an money order to cover it (hopefully). I already have installed a set of Soundocity outriggers and plan to do a lot of listening for a baseline so I can compare the outriggers alone for a while before putting them up on your gliders.
The Genesis speakers are not doing well in their current location when presented with high quality music with real low bass in the mix as standing waves are seriously being generated by some albums. I am currently emptying out the room for a complete redecorating job including carpeting and all new paint. Then, when it goes back together again, I am kicking the HT system to the kerb and moving the stereo to the long wall where the speakers can breathe a little.  Also, at that time or soon after, I should take delivery of a new super-wide rack from Steve Blinn. Do you think the rack should also be placed on gliders too?

Also, I currently have my TT, a VPI SSM that weighs over 100#, sitting on a huge 4"x 27" x 21" maple platform. Currently, I use Mapleshade Isoblocks between the platform and shelf. Do you think I should try something else in the decoupling role?

Herbie

Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #5 on: 16 Mar 2015, 11:54 pm »
Hi, mcbuddah. A decoupling interface between equipment rack and floor is always beneficial, whether you use Gliders or other dBNeutralizer-based product.

We have tons of customers who have replaced cork-and-rubber Isoblocks with regular grungebuster or Extra-Thick grungebuster Dots for better sonic results between maple platform or butcher block and shelf. For a large platform such as yours having a VPI turntable on it, several 1-1/4" diameter Extra-Thick grungebuster Dots should be ideal (about eight, three along each long side and two to divide the middle).

Steve
Herbie's Audio Lab

deauguie

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Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #6 on: 9 Nov 2015, 10:43 pm »
Steve,

Which glider would you recommend for a pair of 80 lb tower speakers mounted on a pair of Soundocity outriggers?  I had the plinths custom made to fit the outriggers I have, and I need to be able to move the speakers to achieve the best placement in my room.  The speakers are coupled to a concrete slab via the outrigger spikes, and the carpet is a low pile berber, over a fairly dense 1/2" pad.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Dan

Herbie

Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #7 on: 10 Nov 2015, 01:10 am »
I recommend a Giant Cone/Spike Decoupling Glider under each of the outrigger spikes. (If it were a bare floor, or thinner carpet/pad, regular Cone/Spike Decoupling Gliders would be sufficient for the job.)

Steve
Herbie's Audio Lab

deauguie

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Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #8 on: 10 Nov 2015, 10:03 pm »
Thanks for the recommendation Steve.  I was hoping to use the standard gliders, but I assume the weight of the speakers and the carpet and pad will not allow the standard gliders to work correctly.  See the attached pics to confirm your recommendation.






Thanks again for your help.

Dan

max190

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Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #9 on: 10 Nov 2015, 11:32 pm »
Thanks for the recommendation Steve.  I was hoping to use the standard gliders, but I assume the weight of the speakers and the carpet and pad will not allow the standard gliders to work correctly.  See the attached pics to confirm your recommendation.






Thanks again for your help.

Dan

Hello Dan - I use the standard brass gliders with excellent results under my 70lb Dynaudio's on rubber back berber glued over concrete. Spkr adjustments are done with ease.  Here is a picture of them.



Steve








Herbie

Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #10 on: 11 Nov 2015, 01:03 am »
Based on the photos, it looks to me that regular Cone/Spike Decoupling Gliders will work very well.

Steve
Herbie's Audio Lab

deauguie

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Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #11 on: 11 Nov 2015, 10:03 pm »
Steve,

I'm glad I sent the pics.  Thanks for reviewing the pics and your recommendation.  I'll be sending in an order for the regular Cone/Spike Decoupling Gliders soon.

Thanks again...

Dan

deauguie

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Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #12 on: 11 Nov 2015, 10:06 pm »
Steve (MAX190),

Thanks for your input.  As you can see, I will be ordering the regular Cone/Spike Decoupling Gliders to put under my outrigger spikes.  I'll let you know how they work out.

Dan

max190

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Re: Advice sought on Sondocity outrigger mounting
« Reply #13 on: 11 Nov 2015, 10:41 pm »
Thanks Dan and good luck.

I bought these mainly so I could move/align the spkrs easily.  I did not expect to get the added bonus of tighter bass and clearer midrange.

Steve