Looking for spkr upgrade. Need help narrowing choices (Long)

gitarretyp · « **on:** 19 Sep 2004, 07:14 am »

I'm looking to upgrade from my current speakers, Eminent Technology LFT-VIIIa. I've been pretty happy with them, but i find them lacking in a few ways; they don't draw me into the music and have a somewhat hard midrange, they are not terribly extended in the treble region and lack sparkle, they do not do rock or harder music very well. What i'm looking for in a new speaker are: midrange warmth without sacrificing details, well extended top and bottom, realistically wide and delineated soundstage, and it must do well in a nearfield set-up.

I have a pretty eclectic taste in music. Things i've been listening to a lot lately would include: Norah Jones, David Elias, Tori Amos, AC/DC, Daft Punk, Mahler, Muddy Waters, Miles Davis, Dire Straits, and Pink Floyd. The system is also used for movies, two channel only.

My current system includes: Marantz SA-14 --> Pure Note Eps Ref III --> PS Audio PCA-2 --> PS Audio Xstream Statement --> Modded PS Audio HCA-2 --> Zu Cable Wax bi-wires. I've experimented with quite a bit of cables and equipment, so please don't make suggests for electronics or cable changes.

My room is ~12' x 15.5' x 9' with my current speakers placed 47" out from the front wall (short wall) and 28" from the sides. I listen 53" into the room and 39" from the ground. This places the speakers ~7' apart and me 7.3' from the plane of the speakers. Half of the back of the room is open above 40" into a kitchen and entry way. It is also open at the back on both sides, one into a dining room and the other into the entry way. One side wall has a windowed opening into the dining that is 3' off the ground and 5' x 4'. The other side wall is covered with media shelves.

I've "narrowed" my choices to the following after extensive reading on audiocircle, audio asylum, and audiogon. I would prefer to keep it in the ~$2000 used price range, but am willing to stretch to $3000 if the improvement is truly substantial. I also prefer floorstanding. Currently, the Osprey seems pretty appealing based upon what i've read.

Audio Physic Virgo I/II
Meadowlark Osprey
VMPS RM30M
Totem Mani-2
Silverline Sonata I/II
Odyssey Lorelei
Talon Raven C/2002
Talon Peregrine
Von Schweikert VR-4 jr

I would love to hear any comparisons anyone has done of any of the above or opinions of any of them.

Sorry to be so long winded, but i didn't want to leave anything out for people to make good suggestions.

MaxCast · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 Sep 2004, 11:39 am »

See if you can get to the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest Oct 7,8,9 in Denver. You will be able to hear some on your list and more.

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 Sep 2004, 11:52 am »

Quote from: gitarretyp

I'm looking to upgrade from my current speakers, Eminent Technology LFT-VIIIa. I've been pretty happy with them, but ....

Wondering if you've explored the tweaks/upgrades for the ET's??? There's a tweak on the ET site for increasing treble, a new woofer (though obviously still an 8") and Sound Anchors stands.

rosconey · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 Sep 2004, 01:04 pm »

might want to take a look at what rick craig does also-selahaudio-
he has a forum here,i have speakers designed by him and he does it very well.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 Sep 2004, 03:15 pm »

For someone who listens to a lot of rock/electric music, I will also agree with PhilNYC and recommend the VR4JR. Great speaker!

However, the ABSOLUTELY BEST SPEAKER I'VE EVER HEARD for electric music is the Neat Acoustic Mystique. It's absolutely made for it and smokes almost all other high end speakers at 1) providing visceral weight necessary for rock/blues, 2) can rip apart instrumental lines like no other speaker I've heard, and 3) has the best PRAT of any speaker I've heard. They don't do it all, but guessing from your list of artists, they will work great. Plus, they are only $1500 new.

Michael

marvda1 · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 Sep 2004, 03:58 pm »

go to www.theehighend.com and check out the usher 6 series loudspeakers. the distributor is in dallas and you could set up an audition of the entire usher line. also do a search at ecoustics.com on the 6311's and 6371's.
the price pointare 6311- $2100, 6371-$2900, and 6381-$3400.
these are starting to gain a lot of press lately.

zybar · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Sep 2004, 04:43 pm »

There is a demo pair of RM 30's being sold in the Market Square that fit in your price bracket and will perform quite well.

I am in now way affiliated with the seller, just pointing out a good deal.

As for your other choices, the Virgos and Meadowlark won't be able to rock out and perform in the same league as the VMPS and VSA and the Totem's are outclassed IMHO. I have not heard the Talon or Odyssey speakers so I can't comment.

George

birdwizard · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Sep 2004, 06:10 pm »

Why not save the $1400 and do this free 7 day trial for $595 shipped and see what you think:
http://www.morelusa.com/home/mlp-403-5.htm
Its not often you get a chance to buy a speaker for less than the cost of its parts. I'm listening at 9 feet distance and I find them to have all the qualities you are looking for. I like them much better than the VR 4.5 Silvers I used to have.

gitarretyp · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Sep 2004, 11:08 pm »

Thanks for everyone's suggestions (including PHILNYC). So far, you guys have helped add a couple of speakers to my list (Usher 6 series and Focus Audio [the FS788 is a bit pricey for me, however]) and haven't removed much. Right now my list is looking something like (in no particular order):

VMPS RM30M
Silverline Sonata I/II
Odyssey Lorelei
Talon Raven C/2002 or Peregrine
Von Schweikert VR-4 jr
Meadowlark Osprey
Usher CP-6311 or CP-6371
Focus Audio FS788

Has anyone heard the talons? Also, how well will the vr-4jrs work in my relatively small room in a nearfield set-up?

Also, to Tonto: I have the sound anchor stands already, and the lft-viiia have the upgraded woofers. I don't really want to do any crossover mods to the speakers in case i want to sell them

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Sep 2004, 11:17 pm »

Quote

Also, how well will the vr-4jrs work in my relatively small room in a nearfield set-up?

Might check this thread..... Fellow member tvyankee own's a pair. Not a big room....but the VR-4jr's sounded very good !!

mca · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Sep 2004, 11:20 pm »

My vote would be for the Silverlines. I had a pair of Sonatina II's on loan to try out and liked them quite a bit. It had a forward but very smooth midrange that made voices just pop out into the room. They were the exact opposite of the Usher CP-730's that I had. I found their midrange to be very flat and lifeless. Took a bit to get used to the big change, but I really liked them. I think it has to do with the excellent LPG 2" midrange Alan uses. Another bonus is they are selling for pretty cheap in Agon.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Sep 2004, 11:22 pm »

gitarretyp,

I've heard both the Talon Ravens and Peregrines (as well as the Khorus X). IMHO, the Ravens are clearly better than the Peregrines are and are more in-line with the quality of the other speakers on your list. They have the signature Talon bass performance, which is extremely fast and tight, and I like them better than the Khorus X. However, I know someone who owns the Ravens, and they are *very* hard to find a matching amp (particularly non-tubed amps) that doesn't make them sound tilted-up/bright.

I think you have an excellent list...

zybar · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Sep 2004, 11:31 pm »

Quote from: mca

My vote would be for the Silverlines. I had a pair of Sonatina II's on loan to try out and liked them quite a bit. It had a forward but very smooth midrange that made voices just pop out into the room. They were the exact opposite of the Usher CP-730's that I had. I found their midrange to be very flat and lifeless. Took a bit to get used to the big change, but I really liked them. I think it has to do with the excellent LPG 2" midrange Alan uses. Another bonus is they are selling for pretty cheap in Agon.

Oh yeah, the Silverlines are excellent. And don't forget, I am selling a pair as well:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=10129&start=0

It took the magic of the VMPS RM 40's to knock the Sonata II's out of my system. No suprise, the two speakers offer very different presentations and prespectives. The Sonata II's will be much easier to drive and easier to match up with associated gear.

George

byteme · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Sep 2004, 01:14 am »

Quote from: gitarretyp

What i'm looking for in a new speaker are: midrange warmth without sacrificing details, well extended top and bottom, realistically wide and delineated soundstage, and it must do well in a nearfield set-up..

I valued the same things you're looking for when I was looking. I read and listened and asked and read. When it came down to it I spent the money on the Odyssey Lorelei's. Beautiful mids, plenty of detail, emotion like I've never heard from a speaker, sometimes it's hard to believe I don't have a sub running with them, there is plenty of bass. Really adds wonderfully to home theater listening too, adds a great amount of clarity and body to busy scenes. The soundstage is deep and wide - on tracks like sympathy for the devil, you can visualize the bongo's well to the outside of the right of the speakers, two channel Hotel California the soundstage streches from wall to wall. I've got a similar sized room (13x20) with an opening on the back of one side opening into the kitchen. The thing I really like is while cooking or listening outside the sweetspot you still get the transfer of emotion and realism.

I read a ton on a lot of the speakers you listed and one thing I noticed on a few of them, they were the big hot thing for a while, and then you see them used for 50% of new price - how good could they have been? $2-3k is no chump change - and you've got a lot of options. You've got a great list - one of the things I did was read things owners wrote and then tried to understand what they were after from their system. I then tried to audition those speakers that had good things said by people who's goals aligned with mine. I'm after emotion, realism, dynamics, soundstage, and something I can live with for a long time in a full range (or near full range) floorstander that looks as good as it sounds.

As soon as I heard the Lorelei's I knew the search was over. Not to mention you get a company like Odyssey to stand behind you - Klaus has been great with everything, and remember, these are exactly the same as the Symphonic Line Legato's which sell for in excess of $6k in Europe.

Someone I respect has said VERY good things about the Usher 6 series. I can say (I own the X-616 center which is a PERFECT match for the Lorelei's as a center) I'm very impressed with the fit and finish of the Ushers.

JLM · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Sep 2004, 01:45 am »

I auditioned the Meadowlark Osprey's once and fell asleep! How's that for not having an "involving" enough sound? BTW did NOT work nearfield (driver integration) for me. IMO neither Meadowlark or Totem build anything close to what you want. OTOH the RM-30 should be a very nice speaker. I've heard the 626R and they did work nearfield.

shokunin · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Sep 2004, 01:50 am »

You have a good list to audition. One other thing to consider is whether or not you'll be integrating a sub into the mix or how much low end extension you want/need. The VSA or Silverlines might extend lower with more authority than than some of the others. I need that first octave extension so I quickly threw out a lot of speakers off my audition list that weren't really full range 25-20K.

KarlDL · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Sep 2004, 02:57 am »

I've had Silverline Sonata IIs for 5 months now and am very pleased. They replaced Totem Forests, which weren't bad, but certainly not in the same class. I was considering Odyssey Loreleis, but the value of used Sonata IIs (similar price point) was too good to pass up. I wouldn't think that a 2-way system (Lorelei and others) would hold up against a multi-driver system that's as well integrated and balanced as the Sonata II.

Positives: Midrange clarity, smoothness, precision, transients; HF smoothness; overall efficiency

Negatives: Engimatic low end: definitely there when truly needed, but perhaps a bit recessed otherwise; WAF

Spouse has issues with their size ... perhaps some rearranging of art on the walls behind will help that (ha!).

Karl

PhilNYC · « **Reply #17 on:** 20 Sep 2004, 03:01 am »

Quote from: gitarretyp

My current system includes: Marantz SA-14 --> Pure Note Eps Ref III --> PS Audio PCA-2 --> PS Audio Xstream Statement --> Modded PS Audio HCA-2 --> Zu Cable Wax bi-wires. ...

Btw - fwiw, Focus Audio usually demos their speakers at shows using PS Audio amplification...

gitarretyp · « **Reply #18 on:** 20 Sep 2004, 03:52 am »

Okay, looks like i'm down to the following:

VMPS RM30M
Silverline Sonata I/II
Odyssey Lorelei
Von Schweikert VR-4 jr
Usher CP-6311 or CP-6371
Focus Audio FS788

Someone commented on the asylum that the sonata would over-power my small'ish room and i should look at the sonatina instead; however, i've read that the sonatina is lacking in sonics compared to the sonata. Any comments on this from people with experience with the sonata/sonatina?

Has anyone directly compared the lorelei and vr-4 jr?

gitarretyp · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Sep 2004, 03:57 am »

Also, i don't intend to be adding a sub to whatever i decide upon, but i'm also not so worried about the lowest octave. I would prefer it be there but wouldn't be heartbroken if it's not.

On the sonatas, how well do they integrate in the nearfield? I'm a little worried about sitting so close to a 4-way.