ferrites be gone!

Folsom · « **on:** 4 Jan 2015, 03:02 am »

After having the expensive but unheard Bel Can to CD1 given to me... I thought it sounded good. But it was sorta bloaty and lacked timbre.

The I removed the EMI IEC socket, and all the ferrites around cables. There's no one that wouldn't be wowed by the results. The best part? Ferrites can be put back in if you decide you liked the sound prior. Well, you might need a few zip ties. It's easy to try. The only hard ones are when you have to take apart a Molex; some you depress a little metal clip you can see.

I now have greatly increased dynamics, resolution, timbre, PRAT, no bloat, 3d, and less fatigue.

Voncarlos · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 07:52 pm »

Hi, Can you show us exactly what you did? The pic is kinda dark.

Speedskater · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 10:48 pm »

As Jay Leno would say in times past:
"What could possibly go wrong?"

TomS · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 11:21 pm »

Quote from: Speedskater on 6 Jan 2015, 10:48 pm

As Jay Leno would say in times past:
"What could possibly go wrong?"

Folsom · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 07:04 am »

They grey and rainbow cable in the middle, the white pads under them were for anchoring the ferrite beads.

The multicolored one to the right was wrapped around a ring that was grounded to chassis.

Davey · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 02:28 pm »

If you're going to advocate removing ferrites from equipment, I think you should elaborate on what they're used for and the possible implications of removing them.

Dave.

sts9fan · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 02:38 pm »

maybe post this in the cable circle.

barrows · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 03:10 pm »

Ah the unheralded CD-1. I used to own one of those, it is a very good single box CD player, and quite sophisticated. Inside that black box is the SMPS, I would be tempted to put the ring back on the wires coming from the SMPS...
The board at the front is a power filter and distribution board, so it post filters the DC from the SMPS to get the nasties out.

The guys at Ayre have mentioned previously their experiences using ferrites for power supply wiring feeding audio circuitry. They experienced that at first the ferrites work as expected, lowering the noise level. But then, the sound gets hard over time (glassiness). they found that if one then de-gaussed the ferrites, the sound would go back to normal. So they figured the ferrites were developing a magnetic field over time which changed their properties, and that periodic de-gaussing was the only way to restore them to good sound.
Just something to think about.

And why do so many manufacturers use the cheap IEC inlet filters: look at their size, it is clear these cannot be good as they must restrict current with the tiny inductors in there (most have the circuit illustrated on the side of their case). I guess an easy way to pass FCC/CE EMI emissions standards, or they help sound a bit for those who have really bad AC and do not have good power conditioning, but the current limiting has to hurt performance...

Peter J · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 03:16 pm »

My rudimentary understanding of ferrites is that they have potential to do good, but also that they do no harm. Could you explain your theory in removing them?

TF1216 · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 03:27 pm »

Have you tried the CD player with and without the cover on since you have removed the ferrites?

Cool experiment

rollo · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 03:39 pm »

In our experience Ferrite and digital just do not work well together. Although they reduce the EMF they also affect sonics. The original Audioquest ferrite products worked well on powercords but never on digital. Made the sound hard and brighter.

charles

Peter J · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 03:51 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 7 Jan 2015, 03:39 pm

In our experience Ferrite and digital just do not work well together. Although they reduce the EMF they also affect sonics. The original Audioquest ferrite products worked well on powercords but never on digital. Made the sound hard and brighter.

charles

Help me to understand, Charles. CD players have power cords, so are you saying that they should or should not have ferrites on cords?

Speedskater · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 03:54 pm »

Jim Brown who writes more about choosing and using ferrites than anyone I know, never touched on the above two problems.
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/publish.htm

rollo · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 04:21 pm »

Quote from: Peter J on 7 Jan 2015, 03:51 pm

Help me to understand, Charles. CD players have power cords, so are you saying that they should or should not have ferrites on cords?

Correct. No ferrite with Digital wether a PC or internally try it and listen for yourself.

rollo · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 04:30 pm »

Quote from: Speedskater on 7 Jan 2015, 03:54 pm

Jim Brown who writes more about choosing and using ferrites than anyone I know, never touched on the above two problems.
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/publish.htm

Informative read however no comments of measured results relating to sonic changes heard. After all the measurements the end result is did this improve or not improve what I'm hearing.

charles

Folsom · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 07:05 pm »

The lid keeps the spinning noise down is all. Yes, I've been into the PSU to eliminate the EMI IEC and ferrite in it.

The CD1 was designed as a "as good as it gets" so ferrites were thrown in with the assumption they're good. Maybe degaused they're ok, but my reason to yank them was based on past negative experiences. Had it been released in a form similar to where I have it now with some minor changes, it would have been a good stand alone unit. People would have overlooked its size because it would be impressing people at the cost point; not scaring them. Unfortunately the old Philips drives fail at loading. Bel Canto says I can RMA it... I might, now.

There's a lot of complications with impedance changing devices. The biggest issue is that DC decoupling isn't that good. I've improved class D sound more by decoupling pre-rectification than changing PVCC caps right at the chip. But it worked because of impedance shifting with an inductor.

Speedskater · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 09:43 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 7 Jan 2015, 04:30 pm

Informative read however no comments of measured results relating to sonic changes heard. After all the measurements the end result is did this improve or not improve what I'm hearing.
charles

It's all about reducing interference and noise, that's called Good Engineering Practice.
You are on your own deciding whether reducing interference and noise is a good thing.
Wait a minute, sometimes audiophiles think that a little bit of background noise is added definition.

Folsom · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 09:47 pm »

Can you explain when and where you think noise is definition from? How can you tell it's not definition and noise (if even audible). Also how can you prove that we don't perceive it better with the equivalent of "room noise" that occurs in person.

just saying, is it worth defining, and how?

Speedskater · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 10:09 pm »

Maybe detail is a better word than definition.

While I can measure things, I'll leave it up to you to prove just what you claim to hear.

Davey · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Jan 2015, 03:35 pm »

Quote from: Speedskater on 7 Jan 2015, 10:09 pm

While I can measure things, I'll leave it up to you to prove just what you claim to hear.

Yeah, but they really don't need to. Subjective evaluation is (by definition) incontrovertible and leaves no basis for discussion. It really is the easy way out.

The premise that ferrites are evil and should "be gone" is just silly rhetoric.

The Lab Circle should probably be off limits to this kind of subjective evaluation nonsense, but, I guess not.

Dave.