House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis

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jsm71

Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #40 on: 10 Feb 2015, 01:18 pm »
It isn't just you, though many say that the quasi ribbon models have improved on that.

I had the Maggie 1.7s with the all quasi ribbon.  I can't speak to earlier designs but the lack of body at low listening levels is also one of the reasons I jumped to the JansZens.  I was considering the 3.7s or possibly the 20.7s as my next jump but I heard the same need to be in the volume sweet spot when I auditioned the 3.7s.   

Due to my wife's work schedule I often have to listen at quite low levels while she gets some sleep.  The JansZen's sound character doesn't change with volume, it just swells and seems to come from a bigger speaker as you raise the SPL.   

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #41 on: 10 Feb 2015, 05:11 pm »
I had the Maggie 1.7s with the all quasi ribbon.  I can't speak to earlier designs but the lack of body at low listening levels is also one of the reasons I jumped to the JansZens.  I was considering the 3.7s or possibly the 20.7s as my next jump but I heard the same need to be in the volume sweet spot when I auditioned the 3.7s.   

Due to my wife's work schedule I often have to listen at quite low levels while she gets some sleep.  The JansZen's sound character doesn't change with volume, it just swells and seems to come from a bigger speaker as you raise the SPL.   

With the right amp and preamp, low level listening is very good.   I have the 1.6's and had them paired with a Pass Labs X-1 preamp and X250 amp.  The X-1 preamp was very dynamic and had good depth at low volumes, even better than my current BAT VK-51se preamp.   I also have a friend who has a pair of 1.7's in a near field set up with an AVA 400R amp and the FET preamp.  Low level listening is even better than with my Pass gear.

Magnepans have the same characteristic ans the JansZen's.  As you turn up the volume, depth and dynamics improve.

In comparing Maggies to ML's, I find that ML's have a very light, airy, 3D and transparent sound.  I find the Maggies to have more weight and depth to the music and a better midrange.  Both sound very good but it is a matter of preference.  I prefer maggies but I heard a pair of CLX's that I really liked.

jsm71

Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #42 on: 10 Feb 2015, 09:42 pm »
You are right to point out that the speaker/amp match is very important.  Before I was introduced to the JansZens I had already tried two amps and neither were very good at low levels with the Maggies.  They were an older McIntosh amp, 300 w/ch, followed by the Sanders Magtech.  The Magtech was the clear winner between the two and once you got both the amp and the speaker "awake" it was pretty nice.  I do stand by my observation that the Maggies sound character varied over volume levels, but its possible that was due to the amp's characteristics. 

With the JansZens I learned that the Magtech could be easily beat for better sound with tube amps or lesser powered SS models.  The Magtech was way too much power for the Janszens and at a fraction of its output it lacked charm.   The sound characteristics still didn't vary however with that amp with different volume.  It was just better suited to the Maggies. 

KLH007

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Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #43 on: 14 Feb 2015, 02:01 am »
I have owned the ML Summits, and have heard Summit Xs, CLS's Montis, Prodigys, in various set ups. I have also heard Audio Exklusiv (full range planar from Germany), Soundlab Ultimates (with  the metal chassis), Quads and Maggies (not 20.7 yet), and Apogees.

My favourite is the Analysis Audio (Omega or the Amphitryon). It has the magic of the Logan midrange, but much more fuller bodied and well integrated bass. But then if you want high quality for a low price try the GT Audio Planar, which is ribbon magnet hybrid. Very musical ribbon, and much punchier and dynamic than a Maggie. I sold my Summits and am contemplating either the AA or the GTA.

I agree with bonzo75, the GTA2s are an undiscovered gem. Compared to Magneplanars the GTA2s are better at lower levels, explosively dynamic, punchy mid bass, satisfying full range and do not need a subwoofer. They present an easy load for an amp since the low bass is plate amp powered, EL34 amps welcome. They seem like Maggies on steroids, if you can make a trip to NJ, Greg will make your effort worthwhile.

a.wayne

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Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #44 on: 14 Feb 2015, 01:26 pm »
I've listened to and lived with small sweet spots, but any speakers sound best when you're center. However, there are other, frequently overlooked problems with limited dispersion. One is that the dispersion of a limited-dispersion speaker changes with wavelength. Since both on-axis response and uniform polar response are crucial to realism in the reproduction of acoustical instruments, it's hard to get such a speaker to sound realistic and I think this more than anything else is why many stats, despite their superior detail, don't sound as realistic as they should. Toole's research suggests that power response is critical to the perception of sound quality, but audiophiles (and many speaker manufacturers) tend to focus exclusive on on-axis response. Even with baffle step compensation, bBoxes can never sound right because they're cardioid in the mids and highs and omnidirectional in the bass. Stats, with their limited excursion, run into problems with driver width, as do optimistally-designed speakers in which the dispersion of the lower frequency driver narrows as one approaches each crossover point.

And so it goes ....  :)


ESL and most panels lack (meat on the bones) due to a lack of percussive energy especially in the critical 100-250hz region....

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #45 on: 14 Feb 2015, 01:53 pm »
The best planar with a long ribbon I have heard is the analysis audio, modded crossovers. But Greg's GT audio at just over 6k is pretty close. I prefer both to Maggie's and Montis. I owned the summits.

I would +1 for the GT Audio Works hybrids. (http://www.gtaudioworks.com/Products.html)  I have listened to 3.7s, and I feel the GTA speakers are far more dynamic and engaging. I have a buddy who lives near Baltimore who would probably let you audition his pair if you're close.  I've not heard the MLs however, and can't comment.

SteveFord

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Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #46 on: 14 Feb 2015, 02:43 pm »
a. wayne,
Out of curiosity, which speakers do you own?  I don't see a System listed.

bonzo75

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Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #47 on: 14 Feb 2015, 02:46 pm »
And so it goes ....  :)


ESL and most panels lack (meat on the bones) due to a lack of percussive energy especially in the critical 100-250hz region....

Not sure why, as some are hybrids with well integrated crossovers.

a.wayne

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Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #48 on: 14 Feb 2015, 03:23 pm »
Not sure why, as some are hybrids with well integrated crossovers.



Not only integration, but implementation,  linesource db output and pattern with distance is difficult to manage, thats where the secret sauce lies..... :)

a.wayne

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Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #49 on: 14 Feb 2015, 03:26 pm »
I would +1 for the GT Audio Works hybrids. (http://www.gtaudioworks.com/Products.html)  I have listened to 3.7s, and I feel the GTA speakers are far more dynamic and engaging. I have a buddy who lives near Baltimore who would probably let you audition his pair if you're close.  I've not heard the MLs however, and can't comment.

Dynamics are maggies weakness, so i can concur with you on that, on a  personal level i prefer the sound of ribbons over  ESL's ...   


@SteveFord,

I will post-up as soon as they  arrive ,  currently stacked Bose wave radios .... :)

SteveFord

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Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #50 on: 14 Feb 2015, 10:46 pm »
Please do.
I know what you mean, you just can't beat a couple of Bose Wave Radios strapped to your head with a ratcheting tie down.
As for percussive energy, I dunno.  I moved the Hafler amp upstairs for a bit and in that system with that SVS tube sub Jeff Beck's Live In Tokyo album had as much percussive energy as I can stand.  Certainly as much as 20 rows back which is where we sat when we saw him a few years back.
Maybe I just lucked out with the room size/preamp for the 1.7s but I have no complaints.

a.wayne

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Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #51 on: 15 Feb 2015, 03:20 am »
You did mention with  sub right ......  :)



SteveFord

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Re: House Sound: Magnepan 3.7 vs Martin Logan Montis
« Reply #52 on: 15 Feb 2015, 05:16 am »
Yes, these aren't 20.7s.
Those don't need a sub.
Even without  one, the 1.7s always put out great sounding bass here down to the cut off point.  The rest of the system is matched up really well with them.
It's funny, the Sonic Frontiers preamp sounds terrible with the 3.7s as it's just outclassed but with the 1.7s it's really good.