Hunt for musical towers

neep · « **on:** 5 Dec 2014, 04:05 am »

Really glad to be here! I'm on the hunt for some new towers that are "musical" and involving. I'm not just looking for rolled off highs or an exaggerated midrange, but more so a company whose sound signature is warm and non-fatiguing yet authoritative and detailed (lol I basically want it all right?)

I am 28 years old but I am by no means a "newcomer." I couldn't find a more appropriate section so I hope this is okay here. I've owned plenty of towers and still haven't found "the ones." WAF is a factor, and if it helps I really love the look of the Usher Audio speakers. I'd really love some suggestions and maybe some stories of your hunt to go along with them.

Qualities that are crucial:

1. Bass definition. I don't have a dedicated room so ideal placement won't be possible. The towers MUST have some kick and lower midrange definition is really important to me too. Magnepans are OUT for this reason.
2. WAF. They can't take up to much real estate. I love a nice Walnut finish. We have dark hardwood floors and kind of an country/modern look going on, so anything bizarre (i.e., Gallo) is out of the question. Can't do a Cherry or reddish Mahogany finish if that helps.
3. Off-axis listening. They have to fill up the room with involving and musical sound.

My electronics:

Tidal Lossless Audio Streamer > Macbook Pro > Oppo 105D > Rogue Perseus Tube Preamp > Rogue Audio Stereo 90 Super Magnum Tube Amp (90wpc)

Budget:

$3,000 MAX for new or used speakers

Current Speakers:

Totem Hawk - The Hawks sound good anywhere in the room but they strain at higher volumes and don't have the bass definition/authority that I'm looking for. Real estate is important so a sub is out of the question.

Use:

80% 2-Channel 20% 3.1 Home Theater (a great center channel offering is a huge plus but shouldn't be factored into my budget)

Conclusion:

Again, I would love some recommendations on finding some involving towers and to hear stories about your hunt if you're up to it. I'd really love to try Salk or Usher speakers, but would want to go used to get more bang for my buck I think.

JLM · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Dec 2014, 10:19 am »

First: Welcome!

Second: To obtain flat in-room bass frequency response requires a "swarm" of subwoofers (that also do a good job of evening out response across the room). Search Audio Circle for "swarm" and Duke LeJeune. Read Floyd E. Toole's "Sound Reproduction". Sorry, that this doesn't fit into the WAF, but the subs can be smallish and would be randomly placed in the room.

Third: Then you won't need towers (or any response from the mains below the room's transition frequency, typically around 130Hz). You'd be left with about $1,000 for the main speakers after "swarming". Recommend looking for a 6 inch woofer to nicely fill in the critical mid-bass frequencies.

I've owned $300/pair Ascend Acoustics CBM-170's for 12 years and love them (as did the press when released, improved version out now). Natural detail/tone, super imaging, extremely musical, huge content value (but not much to look at). They sell better/bigger/more expensive speakers with finish options and full block stands (that would look like towers if that is your thing). Direct sales only, so value stays high. They do run sales, think they have one running now - typical for the holidays.

charmerci · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Dec 2014, 11:13 am »

I'm somewhat budget-minded so I'd get these -

http://philharmonicaudio.com/slims.html

You can get a choice of standard finishes or anything finish for a few hundred more. (It makes an easier sell if you let your wife pick out the veneer/wood.)

I've had his monitor speakers before.

RDavidson · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Dec 2014, 03:46 pm »

I have a set of Monitor Audio RS6's. I've had them for many years. I own other speakers also. But, man the MA's are REALLY REALLY good, even in direct comparison to my KEF LS50's and Omegas. Their "low" price may cause some to turn up their noses, but they have entirely hi-end performance and sound fantastic with tubes too. You might look at RX6's which have a more linear top end. I haven't heard the newest Silver 6, but it seems that reviews are tired of the same old awesome performance, and want a bigger revamp. I think MA is doing well by not screwing with something that works and are just making subtle improvements over the years.

neep · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 04:29 am »

Thanks for all of the responses thus far.

JLM, sounds like a setup for the mancave (which unfortunately does not exist) or dedicated room. I'm very interested in the method though and will look into it!

Charmerci, great suggestion. I've heard of Philharmonic speakers but have never gotten my ears on them. The "Slims" look like they would be a perfect fit.

RDavidson, I owned a pair of Monitor Audio RS6's but found them fatiguing after long sessions. The midrange is undeniable and VERY pronounced but still, they were really fun for the time I had them. I also found them spectacular for home theater because of that midrange.

I'm really leaning towards Salk or Usher after a lot of research. I'm waiting on something to come available on the used market. Would love more input and thanks gents.

jarcher · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 04:46 am »

I own totem hawks, arros and dreamcatchers, yet I can't recommend more highly Neat Acoustics, in particular the SX1 & SX2 mini towers. They are almost full range (down to 25 /35hz for real) with better bass response and refinement than totem, are available in American Walnut finish, having a matching center as well as monitors (sx-c and sx3 respectively) and are available new for $2500-3000 (sx2 vs sx1). They have a very high WAF because of their size and finish, are easy and unfussy to place, and are actually made in the UK (not China) by people with a background as musicians, so the musicality is there, but without opacity of detail.

For more info see : www.neat.co.uk and look at the motive models.

That page has links to dealers in the UK and distributors around the world (for USA : www.hifiservices.com).

Full disclosure : I'm associated with a D.C. Area Neat dealer. Neat is by far our most popular and honestly best value speaker line. Based on the description of your wish list I suggest demoing them - I really think you'd like them. One of our customers brought in his rogue cronus magnum amp and loved them (sx2). Just as soon as he can afford them (sx1) he plans to buy them.

pansixt · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 04:49 am »

Neep,

Hey, Welcome to the circle. You see how we have drawn you in. Yeah, you are stuck now.

Ditto charmerci's post. No way you can top that line of towers. If I hadn't bought planars, I would buy the towers that Dennis built.

richidoo · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 04:59 am »

Welcome to AudioCircle Neep!

Keep your eyes peeled for Legacy Audio speakers... Focus 2020, Classic, or Signature 3. These all play big, loud and very musical. Sounds good at low volume for late night listening. There are a couple pairs of Focus on Agon now.
Rich

pansixt · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 05:00 am »

Neep-,
At great peril I will tell you that the NEAT Towers are amazing. But I would seriously consider the Philharmonics if they are similarly priced. Ask, or find someone nearby to your home for a preview.
James

neep · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 05:00 am »

Quote from: pansixt on 6 Dec 2014, 04:49 am

Neep,

Hey, Welcome to the circle. You see how we have drawn you in. Yeah, you are stuck now.

Ditto charmerci's post. No way you can top that line of towers. If I hadn't bought planars, I would buy the towers that Dennis built.

I'm actually in the market for a new group of forum friends, so I'm glad to be stuck with this bunch

I was a very active member of another forum that has went completely downhill after a redesign. Anyways..

Thanks for another vote for those towers. Very interesting. I wonder how they compare to the baseline Salk Songtowers?

Also, are there any Harbeth fans around? I've been so curious about these speakers and I actually love the old school look of them. I'm wondering what the best used starter pair would be.

pansixt · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 05:02 am »

Rich,
Get the heck back down to North Cakalaky. No I'm just kidding Rich> I miss talking to you.
James

neep · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 05:03 am »

Quote from: jarcher on 6 Dec 2014, 04:46 am

I own totem hawks, arros and dreamcatchers, yet I can't recommend more highly Neat Acoustics, in particular the SX1 & SX2 mini towers. They are almost full range (down to 25 /35hz for real) with better bass response and refinement than totem, are available in American Walnut finish, having a matching center as well as monitors (sx-c and sx3 respectively) and are available new for $2500-3000 (sx2 vs sx1). They have a very high WAF because of their size and finish, are easy and unfussy to place, and are actually made in the UK (not China) by people with a background as musicians, so the musicality is there, but without opacity of detail.

For more info see : www.neat.co.uk and look at the motive models.

That page has links to dealers in the UK and distributors around the world (for USA : www.hifiservices.com).

Full disclosure : I'm associated with a D.C. Area Neat dealer. Neat is by far our most popular and honestly best value speaker line. Based on the description of your wish list I suggest demoing them - I really think you'd like them. One of our customers brought in his rogue cronus magnum amp and loved them (sx2). Just as soon as he can afford them (sx1) he plans to buy them.

Thanks for the recommendation! I'm most definitely going to do my research on these...

richidoo, I actually found a pair of Legacy Signature 3's locally for $800 and pulled out of the deal last minute

I've heard amazing things about them.

pansixt, another vote for the Philharmonics.. hmm.. now taking an even more serious look at them. Thanks!

RDavidson · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 06:01 am »

Quote from: neep on 6 Dec 2014, 04:29 am

Thanks for all of the responses thus far.

JLM, sounds like a setup for the mancave (which unfortunately does not exist) or dedicated room. I'm very interested in the method though and will look into it!

Charmerci, great suggestion. I've heard of Philharmonic speakers but have never gotten my ears on them. The "Slims" look like they would be a perfect fit.

RDavidson, I owned a pair of Monitor Audio RS6's but found them fatiguing after long sessions. The midrange is undeniable and VERY pronounced but still, they were really fun for the time I had them. I also found them spectacular for home theater because of that midrange.

I'm really leaning towards Salk or Usher after a lot of research. I'm waiting on something to come available on the used market. Would love more input and thanks gents.

Yes, the midrange has fantastic detail, immediacy and speed while also sounding open, full, and natural. Quite a feat. At their price, they still surprise me whenever I hook them up. I agree, though, they could be fatiguing in some setups / rooms. I think a lot has to do with listening volume. Some people are more sensitive to some treble frequencies than others too. Definitely a YMMV kind of thing. I never listen loud, so the tweeter never gets unwieldy and they sound very natural with just a bit of added energy and sparkle in the upper most audible treble. This characteristic can be attractive, but also needs consideration / balance, for sure. I think the best amp I paired with them (but, not the best I've owned) was a Cayin A50T. The Cayin has such a liquid midrange, but the highs are slightly rolled off and the bass isn't particularly powerful or punchy. This balanced very nicely with areas where the MA's have slight excess. Anyway, glad you've experienced them, though. I still feel they're one of those products by which higher end speakers can be compared to, even after all these years.

neep · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 07:12 am »

You are absolutely right. For their price, they are a killer value. I paid $600 for mine. I always wanted to move up to the RS8's to get more punch, but FWIW they were surprising in that area as well.

charmerci · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 10:20 am »

I used to own DM's Philharmonitors. They sound great loud and the high end never sounded harsh to me - and that's what I'm most sensitive to in speakers. Even though I know that there are a number of good speakers out there - I'd get Philharmonics again because it's a safe bet in my book.

robcentola · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 10:59 am »

I know a guy who has some sweet SongTowers for sale

charmerci · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 11:19 am »

Quote from: robcentola on 6 Dec 2014, 10:59 am

I know a guy who has some sweet SongTowers for sale

"Who could it be now?"

mcgsxr · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 02:31 pm »

Although I did not keep them long term, my pair of Totem Sttaf did a lot of what you are asking about.

Not sure about the high volume thing, I never played mine that loud, but they had a very musical, involving presentation that was a little laid back. They played well with an affordable NAD integrated - so well that the local buyer for my speakers got off his wallet and took the NAD too!

I have owned Totem Rokk, Sttafs, and now own Model 1 biwires. Really like their speakers, but each one has a different presentation so experimentation is key.

You have a great budget to work with, and numerous options for sure.

Good luck in the hunt!

JackD201 · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 07:18 pm »

A few years ago we represented the LSA Group. That is until they switched to a factory direct business model. Good news is that for you in the US prices are now down for reasons mentioned earlier. I would say that the LSA2 tower pretty much fits your description.

While we've parted, there is no bad blood and the products are as good as they ever were. Try and give them a call. I believe there is a generous trial offer.

Von Schweikert Audio, who we still represent, has it's Vortex factory direct division. A whole lot of trickle down technology from the products in the pricey VSA Main and extremely pricey Custom division. Vortex is likewise factory direct so you will get a lot of bang for the buck. These models are meant to be placed close to the front walls so that is a big bonus for you. The Model 22 is within budget and the 33 within reach. You will occasionally find some for sale pre-owned right here on AC. Needless to say, as International Distributors, we make zip from Vortex so you can rest assured that these recommendations have no angles.

Happy hunting and welcome to the forum!

Phil A · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 07:46 pm »

Quote from: charmerci on 6 Dec 2014, 10:20 am

I used to own DM's Philharmonitors. They sound great loud and the high end never sounded harsh to me - and that's what I'm most sensitive to in speakers. Even though I know that there are a number of good speakers out there - I'd get Philharmonics again because it's a safe bet in my book.

Great speakers for the money competing with speakers of much higher price points