Grant TubeDAC-11 or Schiit Bifrost?

geowak · « **Reply #20 on:** 5 Dec 2014, 10:09 pm »

Quote from: ASCTLC on 5 Dec 2014, 02:13 am

Thanks for these responses.............................. .

While I doubt I'd be doing myself any sort of disservice with either DAC, I'm putting the Bifrost with Uber and USB2 on my Christmas list.

I have to admit I lean heavily to US made products in general. After all, my whole system is good ole USA. My experiences overwhelmingly weigh towards the best positive experiences with US made products, so it goes with this decision too. I'm just not a comfortable buyer and seller as many of you might be so basically I believe I'm playing my hand safe.

I'd still love to hear how the TubeDAC would sound in my system. Any offers in Colo Springs area?

Andy

I would very surprised if you were not VERY PLEASED with the musicality of the Schiit Audio Bifrost Uber. These guys have been making DACs for awhile. Jason Stoddard was the engineering lead at Sumo . Mike Moffat was working with Theta and Theta digital. I was amazed how my Bifrost compared to the Benchmark DAC I bought years earlier.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #21 on:** 5 Dec 2014, 11:54 pm »

I use a GF DAC-11 in a secondary system as a DAC and preamp with a Class D Audio CDA-254 amp and Magnepan MMG's. The stock tube sucks. I rolled in a 1960 Telefunken 6DJ8 non A-Frame tube and it sounds a little more tubey with better air, transparency, deeper bass and a much wider sound stage. The A-frame version is a little more musical but it is more forward in presentation, a little too much for my taste. The Amprex 1960 non A-frame is similar to the Tele but has a little less detail.

Here is the non A frame Amprex (you want the one's from the Herlene factory)-
http://tctubes.com/Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-white-label.aspx

And here is what an A Frame looks like-

http://tctubes.com/Amperex-PQ-6DJ8-ECC88-A-frame-dimpled-disc-getter.aspx

If you are wanting razor sharp detail then the GF is a poor choice, you would be better off with a Sabre based DAC. But if you like a smoother non fatiguing sound, with good musicality then the GF with an upgraded tube is a good choice. Allow about 20 hours of break in.

I have compared it to my Van Alstine Ultra hybrid tube DAC which is getting long it the tooth. The AVA dac still beats it out by a huge margin but it cost $1500.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #22 on:** 6 Dec 2014, 02:34 pm »

I have a Genelex Gold Lion 6922 coming. I look forward to having fun with running in the GF piece, and being able to use just the tube stage too, to try on my Dragonfly and HRT Music Streamer II through it.

Should be fun.

The Schiit DAC has a great rep, I look forward to hearing what you think in your system. It is a solid choice for sure.

zobsky · « **Reply #23 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 11:35 pm »

IMHO
The difference between competently designed DACs ( cheap or otherwise ) is of the last 5-10% variety . I've heard a tubedac and compared it to my $50 cheapo hifimediy SABRE ES9023 USB DAC ( the one with an external power supply) and while the tubedac was better, the difference was minuscule . Likewise, the tube buffered mode in the tubedac was a bit more musical than the SS mode at the expense of a little bit of transparency. Nothing major .

prokennex · « **Reply #24 on:** 14 Dec 2014, 12:12 am »

The Musical Paradise MP D1 Dac seems to get good reviews.
$480 plus $25 for the shipping.
Wall of Sound review:
http://www.wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/musical-paradise-mp-d1-dac-the-worlds-best-dac-under-1000/

mcgsxr · « **Reply #25 on:** 14 Dec 2014, 12:45 am »

I find a very obvious difference between the HRT Music Streamer II and my Audioquest Dragonfly V1.

It was obvious with the HRT vs the Micromega Mydac too.

Looking forward to the TubeDAC-11 and trying the built in DAC vs the HRT (my reference).

JLM · « **Reply #26 on:** 14 Dec 2014, 11:41 am »

Quote from: zobsky on 13 Dec 2014, 11:35 pm

IMHO
The difference between competently designed DACs ( cheap or otherwise ) is of the last 5-10% variety . I've heard a tubedac and compared it to my $50 cheapo hifimediy SABRE ES9023 USB DAC ( the one with an external power supply) and while the tubedac was better, the difference was minuscule . Likewise, the tube buffered mode in the tubedac was a bit more musical than the SS mode at the expense of a little bit of transparency. Nothing major .

I agree. None of DAC's I've had over the past 12 years (Ack DAC, modded SB2, Red Wine, Eastern Electric - tube or solid state) have made much of a difference to my ears (but I'm a sworn "speaker guy"). I do believe that we each have different sensitivities to different aspects of sound.

But I'm willing to try again (trying to go direct USB from computer and current DAC, modded Behringer DEQ2496, doesn't have USB input). So I'm looking for quality/low price options, like Halide Design ($500 with both cables attached, Stereophile Class A rated) that allows for up to 7 meter cables (so I can use my new MacBook from the listening seat).

ASCTLC · « **Reply #27 on:** 19 Dec 2014, 05:50 pm »

I hope glare and edge are simply 2 different ways to express the same trait.

Basically due to the large room and the lack of treatment options I set my upper range -2db to cut a little glare. The glare is still there but attenuated enough to mitigate at normal listening levels. It doesn't take much to improve so I don't think I have far to go to mitigate this somehow.

Is the Bifrost Uber Analog known to smooth out a little glare/edge?

Thanks,
Andy

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #28 on:** 19 Dec 2014, 06:19 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 14 Dec 2014, 11:41 am

I agree. None of DAC's I've had over the past 12 years (Ack DAC, modded SB2, Red Wine, Eastern Electric - tube or solid state) have made much of a difference to my ears (but I'm a sworn "speaker guy"). I do believe that we each have different sensitivities to different aspects of sound.

A few years ago I had in the house a very expensive top level Lampizator DAC on loan. No doubt it sounded much better and more three dimensional than my inexpensive Beresford. However that difference in sound quality practically vanished with a medical isolation transformer in front of the Beresford. It was really quite remarkable transformation. The MIT and Beresford cost a fraction of the Lampizator, but to compare them against the Lamp, you'd never think so. The obvious superiority of the Lamp was greatly, if not all but diminished by following some sage advice courtesy of "The Chair Guy".

geowak · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 Dec 2014, 06:48 pm »

Quote from: ASCTLC on 19 Dec 2014, 05:50 pm

I hope glare and edge are simply 2 different ways to express the same trait.

Basically due to the large room and the lack of treatment options I set my upper range -2db to cut a little glare. The glare is still there but attenuated enough to mitigate at normal listening levels. It doesn't take much to improve so I don't think I have far to go to mitigate this somehow.

Is the Bifrost Uber Analog known to smooth out a little glare/edge?

Thanks,
Andy

I do not hear any glare or edge on the Bifrost Uber. I listen to Jazz and Instrumental music mostly. When I hear a sax, or percussion instruments they sound very natural. I think the many tones of a piano are hard to reproduce well. The Bifrost will do this as well as any $500 dac I have heard. Vocals are very smooth. Keep in mind I don't have speakers that are the "speakers for life" variety. Mine are Vandersteen 2Ce Sig IIs. I also do not have anything for room treatment. My source is either a Rega Apollo Cd player or a Pure I-20 dock with an Iphone 5S!! Also if you lika the coloration and warmth of tubes, a tube DAC might sound better. The Bifrost, to me, has a very neutral sound.

KR500 · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 Dec 2014, 09:17 pm »

I agree with the comments Geowak just posted .
My first DAC was the MF V-DAC w/ upgraded PSU that still works great in my exercise room
I've definitely been pleased with my Bifrost the last 2 years or so and just did the Uber Upgrade which was a worthwhile improvement.
I originally decided on getting the Bifrost after reading a lot of positive user reviews because
1.Made In The USA !
2. company has great customer service on this continent
3. has an excellent warranty

High Dollar value product that Stereophile should rate higher IMHO
I looked at 3 other DACS in my -$500 DAC budget and the Bifrost seemed the best bet for the buck and hasn't disappointed.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 Dec 2014, 10:30 pm »

I had a Cambridge Audio 840C and a Marantz SA8001 SACD player and both were beat out by my Van AlstineUltra plus Hybrid SS/tube DAC which is now getting a little long in the tooth. It still sounds great with a few op amp and tube upgrades. I have a Grant Fidelity DAC-11 and a Maverick Audio Tube Magic D-1 (with tube and OP amp upgrades) and both pale in comparison to the my Van Alstine DAC. The best DAC that I have heard in my system is the Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSDse. Dynamically and musically it was the best I have heard. It had great detail and resolution and explosive bass when paired with my Pass X250 amp and BAT VK-51se preamp with Magnepan QR1.6's. A friend of mine brought it over for a listen. A used Wyred is on my short list of next upgrades.

ASCTLC · « **Reply #32 on:** 20 Dec 2014, 12:04 am »

That wired DAC2se is

If I ordered the Wyred DAC-2se it'd be a long time before my broken fingers healed and I regained consciousness to be back posting on this forum

Thinking about my set up, I'm wondering just how bad my cheapie Blu-ray player is and if it is the source of the glare. Ok, I'll say it

it's a Sony BDP-BX59 Am I correct to believe if I output the BDP via toslink to the DAC would bypass the internal processing of my music? And then the DAC output into one of my AVA Insight inputs, that I should expect improvement? I think I know this answer but my noobness has me questioning just what the heck I might know.

Have you experienced the Vision DAC Greyhound to know the differences between it and the FET Valve Hybred DAC? Maybe I should be considering a trade in of my fairly new Insight+ EC preamp for the Vision DAC/pre?

Hmmmm.... did I just complicate this Schiit/TubeDAC decision with the possibility of the AVA DAC???

After everything we've been through in the past year and a half and all the expenses we continue to face, a $1000 DAC just isn't a reality for me. I've got to find the best value possible that will still keep me/us satisfied for years to come in that ~$500 max range.

Sorry guys, I'm just all kinds of doubtful...

Andy

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #33 on:** 20 Dec 2014, 01:55 am »

I have heard the FET DAC. It has a nice sound but I can't hold a candle to the Wyred which can be had used for about $1500. I prefer my Ultra SL hybrid AVA DAC with the AVA mods and an NOS 1950's Raytheon black plate tube to the FET although the FET is smoother and warmer, but the SL sounded better in my system while the FET sounds better paired with the R amps and CF preamp in Franks system.

The Vision DAC has a nice sound but i did not get to hear it in my system like the FET. I would post the question on the AVA circle.

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #34 on:** 20 Dec 2014, 07:53 am »

Quote from: ASCTLC on 19 Dec 2014, 05:50 pm

I hope glare and edge are simply 2 different ways to express the same trait.

No, I would not say they are the same thing at all, in fact very different. Glare is centered in the upper midrange/ lower treble, around 5khz. Edge is much higher in frequency, 8-12khz, sometimes higher if from upper harmonics causing ripples in lower bandwidths, i.e. "digital sound". All of this is entirely subjective and predicated on the whim of the author, but the above has always been my impression. Glare makes trumpets, french horns, cellos sound unnatural. Edge makes violins and cymbals sound harsh. My 2 cents, YMMV.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #35 on:** 20 Dec 2014, 01:37 pm »

Take a look at Audiogon for a used DAC. There are several good DAC's in your price range- PS Audio Nuwave and Digilink, Bel Canto DAC-2, Schiit Gungnir, and a couple of Bench Mark DAC-1's.

ASCTLC · « **Reply #36 on:** 20 Dec 2014, 02:09 pm »

Thanks guys. Glare is what I have, just a touch. Violins and cymbals sound excellent - to me.

I thought about posting over on AVA Circle.

Andy

bladesmith · « **Reply #37 on:** 20 Dec 2014, 04:27 pm »

I bought a new Gungnir. Yesterday. I had been using
A Bifrost. I never had an issue with it. Just wanted to
step up.

JLM · « **Reply #38 on:** 21 Dec 2014, 01:21 am »

Quote from: bladesmith on 20 Dec 2014, 04:27 pm

I bought a new Gungnir. Yesterday. I had been using
A Bifrost. I never had an issue with it. Just wanted to
step up.

Please let us know how you like it.

ASCTLC · « **Reply #39 on:** 22 Dec 2014, 02:26 pm »

Ok Mark, you've had this thing long enough

I'm itching to hear your impression!

My wife says I have to order my own DAC so my time frame just opened a little bit. Yea, as if I don't have a tough enough time with it, that certainly drags out my decision.

I hope it's ok to continue to ask questions to assist with my understanding. I'm searching best I can but sometimes I need additional help to understand some concepts.

Can one expect a tube based sound to improve the decay of instruments a little? Say some of the piano, violin, and even some guitar in the blues genre I listen to?

Thanks,
Andy