Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1

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seikosha

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #40 on: 12 Jan 2015, 03:35 pm »
Yup, I own Rachel and an MT (that I'll be selling to fund some non-audio stuff). I was curious about a SE amp down down the road that will let me roll a lot of different tubes. I'll have to keep the Inspire in mind.

How does the Rachel compare to the Mini Torii?  I've always wondered how those two compared to eachother.

steve f

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #41 on: 12 Jan 2015, 09:00 pm »
I strongly prefer the Mini Torii. Take this with a grain of salt though. I've never met an EL34 amp that I liked. They all sound dull and lack slam to me. Too polite sounding, boring. And yes I've owned a few. I really tried to appreciate them.

Steve

DaveC113

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #42 on: 12 Jan 2015, 09:42 pm »
I strongly prefer the Mini Torii. Take this with a grain of salt though. I've never met an EL34 amp that I liked. They all sound dull and lack slam to me. Too polite sounding, boring. And yes I've owned a few. I really tried to appreciate them.

Steve

It's not the EL34s, it's the way they are driven that produces poor results with many EL34 amps.

steve f

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #43 on: 13 Jan 2015, 12:46 am »
Suggestions Dave?

DaveC113

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #44 on: 13 Jan 2015, 01:19 am »
I tried a single triode, an 12BH7A, when I first built my amp... Even with CCS loading it was just ok and I'd agree with you if I hadn't tried driving the EL34s directly using my 6SN7 Aikido preamp. Doing this made the amp much more clear and lively. The Aikido's output is a white cathode follower with the tube's grid connected to the power supply's B+ through a coupling cap in an attempt to cancel power supply noise. I think many EL34 SET amps (and SET amps in general, especially inexpensive ones) suffer from a driver section that isn't optimal. I can guarantee you my EL34 SET sounds nothing like you describe now... but it probably did when it was using the stock driver section.


opnly bafld

Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #45 on: 17 Jan 2015, 03:40 pm »
I agree with Steve F on the SE84 in the right system.
The MT sounds great, but I have mixed feelings on amps with a lot of tubes and it seems to be the most problem prone amp in the line up (at least from forum posts I have seen).
I also like Rachel (SE34I.4) and love that it can use all these output tubes ~ EL34, KT77, KT88, 6550, and 6L6.


BTW Steve I just picked up an RM-10 MKII*; should be here Monday.  :banana piano:

 *had an original RM-10 a couple of years ago

steve f

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #46 on: 19 Jan 2015, 08:06 pm »
@ opnly bafld,

Wow, and congrats! When you get tired of that MKII you know who to call.  :D


Brianportugal

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #47 on: 7 Aug 2015, 10:35 am »
Sorry everyone for the delayed response!I have omega 3xrs and love the primaluna with them but want to try the decware. Not sure if I should do the Rachael or the zen ufo any guidance? My room is 11 x10 and I have a benchmark pre dac and listen exclusively to tidal.

Thank you all for your guidance

JLM

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #48 on: 7 Aug 2015, 11:30 am »
Sorry everyone for the delayed response!I have omega 3xrs and love the primaluna with them but want to try the decware. Not sure if I should do the Rachael or the zen ufo any guidance? My room is 11 x10 and I have a benchmark pre dac and listen exclusively to tidal.

Thank you all for your guidance

I tried a first generation Rachel (before she had a name) thanks to a loan from Ziggy (Steve's cabinet builder, at least at that time) with my full range 91 dB/w/m speakers and amazingly it had (just) enough power for me (not a headbanger, in an average sized room), lots of tube palpability, but also very flabby bass, and somehow was injured (intermittent distortion).  Earlier this year I sold a 40 wpc Prima Luna Dialogue Premium Integrated after 8 months of ownership.  It was a fine piece, with sufficient power, a very modern tube amp with lots of options for output tubes (EL34, KT77, KT88, KT120, & 6550 - my favorite), and with the right tubes sounded better than my solid state gear, but with only a touch (not quite enough?) of the tube palpability I was after.  But didn't need both and the solid state is easier to live with and being older had a lower resale value.  Also considered, at Steve's recommendation, a ZMA amp, but that would have been $2000 more than the Prima Luna.

My single driver speakers use the "mighty" Fostex F200A (sadly no longer in production) that have AlNiCo magnets and thusly a warmer full bodied yet detailed sound.  So I deemed that the palpability of the Rachel would, in the long term, be too much of a good thing. 

Don't know how today's Rachel compares to the one I tried.  Hope this helps.

Brianportugal

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #49 on: 7 Aug 2015, 12:33 pm »
JLm what is your favorite? Which combination for omega do you like the best? What dac?

JLM

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #50 on: 7 Aug 2015, 02:42 pm »
JLm what is your favorite? Which combination for omega do you like the best? What dac?

Favorite what, tube amp?  Omega speakers?  I'm not the guy to ask.  Omega has been very hard to audition without traveling hundreds of miles or purchasing, so the only ones I've ever heard were the original Fostex based 4, 6, and 8 inch bookshelf speakers from roughly 12 years ago when Louis presented at the MidWest Audio Fest.  In 40 years I've only had the two tube amps mentioned above in my home. 

Folks can give advice, obviously there are better or worse products and system synergy is a real phenomena.  But you (once educated) are you're own best expert at what sounds good to you.  I'm a bit of a "speaker guy" so I start by finding the best speaker for the given room (size, setup, finishes) and your tastes (musical genres, audio preferences, budget).  Note that there is no perfect speaker.  Then shop for amplification to best match the needs of the speakers.

Being a "speaker guy" I'm not much interested in the source.  Gave up on vinyl 30+ years ago (couldn't stand the surface noise).  A couple of years ago finally moved on from CDP to computer for transport and earlier this year replaced my old DAC.  If you read the "blue collar" reviews and give up DSD/DXD (some would say it's mostly if not all hype), you'll find many very good and affordable DAC's.  I ended up with a $500 Emotiva DC-1 DAC/pre/headphone piece from their professional series.  The combination unit will work for a possible desktop system using active monitors.
« Last Edit: 7 Aug 2015, 08:50 pm by JLM »

Hi-Fi Obsession

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #51 on: 7 Aug 2015, 07:33 pm »
Brianportugal,

I am a Decware owner and former Coincident Dynamo owner.  I've never owned or heard Omega speakers so I can't help you there, but Omega/Decware owners are everywhere here.

I am also a member of the Chicago Decware Appreciation Society (CDAPS), which is a made-up organization consisting of me and 3 other enthusiasts in the Chicago Suburban area ;-)  I own the SE84CKCS (sans UFO upgrade, which I can hopefully have soon) and we have extensively compared it to the Rachael, Torii Mk III and Mystery amp.  I have also directly compared the SE84CKCS with the Coincident Dynamo.

I'm going to lay it out here for you: the only reason I would ever buy a Rachael is if 2 watts weren't enough, and I couldn't afford a Torii or Mystery Amp.  To me, the 2w Zen has the transparency and liquidity that the Rachael cannot quite match.  No other Decware amp, in fact, can match it except the Mystery Amp which gets the closest to overall perfection, but still a tiny, tiny bit shy on transparency and layering.  All of the CDAPS members agree.  HOWEVER, this is only obvious under direct comparison.  The Rachael is a fine amp.

Also, Israel Blume overstates the Dynamo.  It is good, but the Zen is better.  It is more transparent and it is quieter.  When I owned the Dynamo I always had noise coming out of my right speaker. 

I am happy to answer any of your other questions, if you wish.

Rob

DaveC113

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #52 on: 7 Aug 2015, 07:43 pm »
I agree with Hi-Fi but haven't actually heard a Rachel. I do have an EL34 SET and have tried a configuration very similar to the Rachel and the issue is the driver section, not the EL34s. El34s have a fairly warm character and can sound amazing but not with a single triode driver that adds to the "tubiness". If you use a very accurate driver with no distortion than an EL34 SET can be amazing. Electraprint has been designing EL34 amps for a long time and one of theirs uses a SS driver, for mine I use no driver at all as my Aikido preamp has enough of gain, very little distortion and robust output section. For my preferences an EL34 SET requires a very neutral and accurate preamp and/or driver to work out. If done this way an EL34 SET can be spectacular but used in a typical simple-as-possible SET amp it's overly warm, a bit slow and short on resolution.


JLM

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #53 on: 7 Aug 2015, 08:51 pm »
Rob, what speakers have you auditioned the Decware amps with?

Hi-Fi Obsession

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #54 on: 7 Aug 2015, 09:26 pm »
Hi JLM,

In my own listening room, I've auditioned the SE84 only with Hawthorne Sterling Silver Trios (97db), which I currently own.  I've also heard the Coincident Dynamo, Atma-Sphere M60s with these speakers.  Prior to the Hawthornes I had Tekton Lores which I drove with Red Wine Sig 15 and the Coincident.

In other rooms, I have heard Decware amps their own line of speakers (Monoliths and MG944) and on Zu Omens.

Rob

Brianportugal

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #55 on: 8 Aug 2015, 06:20 pm »
Thanks rob it sounds like the zen ufo is the way to go. My room is small 10x11 is asymmetrical and I like simple music vocalists . Acoustic guitar , pop country jazz and never turn the volume past 9 o'clock. I have a benchmark dac pre blue jean speaker wire and audio quest  Forrest interconnects. Any other suggestions for dac or cabling?

ozoid

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #56 on: 9 Aug 2015, 06:11 am »
One thought about DACs: Since you're listening exclusively to Tidal, you might want to consider the Meridian Explorer 2. Meridian has developed some technology (that I don't understand at all) that allows Tidal to stream in a way that the Explorer 2 can decode it and present it as master tape quality (24/192).

So far as I know, Tidal is the only streaming service employing the Meridian technology. The Explorer 2 is $300.

I have the original Explorer, and up-rezzing redbook to 24/176 or 192 sounds great, about 80% of the way from redbook to native master tape.

Brianportugal

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #57 on: 9 Aug 2015, 02:41 pm »
Thanks Ozoid. This morning I read up on the meridian, sounds interesting. The relationship is fascinating. It sounds like the sound increases the clarity resolution and soundstage. The dac considerations are the Herus plus or consero, meridian ,mini aires (soon to be released) an schiiit bifrost. Any guidance for a dac using it with the decware zen ufo and omega 3xrs?

Rob which sound do you prefer of the amps and speakers combinations you've had? Is there anything you wished you kept?

Hi-Fi Obsession

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #58 on: 9 Aug 2015, 06:38 pm »
Brianportugal,

The Zen will serve you well with any kind of music.  Truth be told I'm a big classic rock, hard rock, death metal fan and these 2 watts take me anywhere I wish to go.  Their synergy with my Hawthorne SSIs is really special, and their match with Omegas are completely unquestioned.

Re: cabling... well, I just love cables.  And I invest as much as I possibly can in them.  Some think that's crazy, but I think it's important.  Story about Blue Jeans.... my buddy has a Decware Rachael and some Tekton M-Lores with a VPI Scout Jr. front end.  He bought some Grover Huffman interconnects to try out in place of his Blue Jeans, put them in and within 5 mins said "these Blue Jeans are a pile of garbage".  He's very diplomatic.  :-)  He ended up replacing the Blue Jean SC with Grover as well.  One night, before he picked up the Grover I brought over my Triode Wire Labs American SC to swap in, and the change was the largest audible improvement I've ever heard from a cable swap.  Just sayin'. 

I run mostly TWL in my setup, including all my power cords and interconnects, with some vintage Western Electric 16ga wire for speaker cables and a High Fidelity Cable CT-1E for digital.  But there are many other great cables out there and I'd encourage you, at your own pace and budget, to explore some higher-end options.  Sort your equipment first though.  I do have a regret, and that's diving into cables before I even knew what my core components would be.  I've bought Kimber Kable, Clear Day, Grover Huffman, High Fidelity Cable, Crystal Cable, Shunyata, Black Cat, Mapleshade, JW Audio, Coincident, Straight Wire and Triode Wire Labs cables at some point in my journey.  I've auditioned ZenWave Audio, Sablon, Synergistic Research, Snake River Audio and Stereolab as well.  If you're experimenting with DACs, amp/speaker combos, front end equipment etc., just get a complete loom of moderately priced cables or use whatever you currently have and search more heavily when you're satisfied with that part.  There are some great DIY options as well, if you're industrious.  I'm not so industrious :-) Don't ignore power cables or good conditioning, either, and if you can get a dedicated circuit to your rig.  I recently bought a Furutech GTX-D Rhodium power outlet and am just floored by this device.  Maestro outlets are good as well.  I own a PI Audio UberBUSS for power conditioning which is great, but I was also satisfied with a Mapleshade power strip back in the day.  I wouldn't turn these stones over any time soon, just enjoy your equipment and plot your upgrades after that.

If you are looking at a Schiit Bifrost DAC, know that they are planning to implement some trickle-down tech from their top-of-line Yggdrasil soon.  I own the Gungnir and have been very pleased, but I do wish it had more detail retrieval.  Hopefully the trickle-down tech fixes some of this.  If you buy a current generation Bifrost don't expect to be blown away.  It's a good all-rounder but I was never taken aback by it.  And I like to be taken aback.

Sorry I could ramble all day.  Just providing some thoughts.

Rob

DaveC113

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Re: Decware Rachel or Coincident Dynamo SE34.1
« Reply #59 on: 9 Aug 2015, 06:44 pm »
I'd consider the ifi Micro DSD for a budget DAC right now and I agree the Bifrost is only ok, not really better than small USB-powered DACs like the M2Tech...