[rajacat]

Would the XLS 1500 work well with a passive pre like the Tortuga?

[Folsom]

They do, and active wouldn't change much unless it had gain. What's your output voltage for source? That is more important. I found 1.1v to be too little. I had the gain dials cranked up near max.

I'm not sure how big Tommy2Tone's room is, but he needs gain in his system. Also his source voltage?

[rajacat]

Output voltage is ~2.0V, so I guess I would be OK. I'm considering using the XLS to power TD15M midwoofers (98db) in an active setup.

[Folsom]

With that sensitivity you'd probably be fine with 1.1v source.

I think they're a superb choice for subwoofers. I can't imagine ever spending the same dough on a plate amplifier instead.

[roscoeiii]

Would the XLS 1500 work well with a passive pre like the Tortuga?

In theory 2V should work,  but it has seemed to me that a hotter source,  with the XLS gain turned down seemed to be a better arrangement in my system. But that could just be my system. I am on the Tortuga tour,  so I can report back when it gets to me.

[a.wayne]

With that sensitivity you'd probably be fine with 1.1v source.

I think they're a superb choice for subwoofers. I can't imagine ever spending the same dough on a plate amplifier instead.

Agree .....

[OzarkTom]

Heading home from vacation today. I am anxious to get my system going again.

And Happy New Year everyone. My wife and I rang in the New Year last night dancing to the Beatles.

[rajacat]

In theory 2V should work,  but it has seemed to me that a hotter source,  with the XLS gain turned down seemed to be a better arrangement in my system. But that could just be my system. I am on the Tortuga tour,  so I can report back when it gets to me.

Excellent, I will be looking forward to your report.
Hmm...maybe I should get on the tour. Is it still open?

[DaveC113]

Ok, I received my two Crown 1500's yesterday from Salis and have been running them since I put them back in my setup.

I'm going to have to refer to Ozarktom for any direct comparisons with the Salis mod vs one of his dozen or so stock Crowns. 

It's been two weeks or so since I last had them and I've changed a few things around. Like different speakers and implementing a tubed pre. But I'll give a comparison between speakers and amps here for a reference.

My setup before consisted of a pair of Salk Songtowers with a DSPeaker Dual Core 2.0 as a dac/pre and Crown 1500's in bridged mode. I also used a Job 225 and a Aluminatti X2 in and out trying to figure what amp I thought worked best. The Songtowers are the standard dome version and really sang with all three amps. The Crowns really opened things up a gave a lot of dynamics in all types of music, I was impressed from the moment I heard them. It was a forward sounding presentation but if I had to nitpick I would say things sounded a little on the thin side but only in comparison to the X2. I probably would be happy if I had just the Crowns with the Songtowers. The X2 was incredibly clear and very neutral sounding and less forward but I would say lacked a little soul and body that the Job provided. The Job I think matched up best with the Songtowrs with offering incredible bass performance and a natural voice to female and male alike. It just seemed right.

Now on to the Soundscape 8's that I just picked up while the Crowns were off to Salis for the mods. The room I'm using is not ideal at the moment and is just temporary until I move later in the new year so bear with me. The Songtowers I thought did really well in this room that is about 12' by 13'. I took them down in an effort to get some time with the Soundscapes before the move. They have the accuton mid with a raal ribbon tweeter and two 8" bass drivers. So just a little different midrange than the Songtowers as well as the bass.

When I first hooked everything up I had the Job in the mix to see if it could drive the 8's. Everything I loved about the Job with the Songtowers was just blah with the 8's. From what I've read the Job is about 180 to 200 watts per channel in 4 ohm speakers so I knew I wasn't getting a whole heck of a lot but it was something. The Job actually sounded lean and kind of lifeless as compared to what it did before. The X2 didn't fair much better but was more enjoyable to listen to than the Job. It's pushing 500 watts per channel in 4 ohm speakers. I decided to pull out a Rogue Perseus tubed pre I've had for a while to see if it could add some spark to the mix. It definitely added some warmth and personality to the situation but I was still not enthused with how everything sounded. I kept saying it's probably the room not letting the SS8's strut their stuff but I was going to wait and see if the Crowns could add anything that was missing.

As soon as I hooked up the Crowns yesterday I had the gain set at 3 o'clock like I did with the Songtowers but in this case I was getting a very high noise floor in combination with the Perseus. Remeber this is in bridged mode giving 1500 watts per channel! I fiddled back and forth for a while on what seemed best and found the Crowns set at 1 o'clock with the DSPeaker maxed out and the Perseus being the main volume control. First thing I noticed was how crystal clear the sound was and being extremely smooth at the same time. Not thin sounding at all! Dynamics and punch with authoritative bass like I expected from these speakers Everything just came to life and I'm amazed I'm getting this good of a sound considering the room isn't the best for these SS8's.

The tubed pre and the Crowns seem to be a great match and I'm looking at sending in the Perseus for a "Magnum" upgrade. The Crowns sound so good I might wait a while before trying another amp and instead look at a Lampizator dac or something.  I'll let these Crowns run for a while before considering getting them the cryo treatment. I know this is long winded but thought it could be useful.

Wow, that's great the Crowns are providing that kind of performance with your new speakers!  Some speakers just love powerful amps, the more the better. I would not be without a tube preamp, it's the cornerstone of my system and plays a large part in how it sounds.

[Folsom]

I use to think they needed high power, then I found out it's coincidental due to a few things. Watts are watts, but only if and when they get to the speaker. However depending on the amp, they give a different impression of volume purely by perception. 8w tube amp that somehow can blow your ear drums, but you've got 250w SS to replace it?

The rule of thumb in general is that you need bigger amps in most situations, but it isn't true for the reason we like to think.

[Tomy2Tone]

I would not be without a tube preamp, it's the cornerstone of my system and plays a large part in how it sounds.

It makes me wonder if I should put more thought in getting another tube pre or not. Been looking at Melody PB 101 and some from Line Magnetic that look awesome but would be 5 times the cost of the Crowns. If there is a tube pre at the performance value and price of the Crowns I wonder what it is.

Warm and lush while being detailed and transparent is what seems to be the traits of some of these tube pre's, sure would like to find out if that's true.

[OzarkTom]

It makes me wonder if I should put more thought in getting another tube pre or not. Been looking at Melody PB 101 and some from Line Magnetic that look awesome but would be 5 times the cost of the Crowns. If there is a tube pre at the performance value and price of the Crowns I wonder what it is.

Warm and lush while being detailed and transparent is what seems to be the traits of some of these tube pre's, sure would like to find out if that's true.

Cryo'd Itube plus Astron 9v power supply with Reality Cables power cord will set you back about 500 bucks. This is a killer combo with the Crown XLS.

[Folsom]

It makes me wonder if I should put more thought in getting another tube pre or not. Been looking at Melody PB 101 and some from Line Magnetic that look awesome but would be 5 times the cost of the Crowns. If there is a tube pre at the performance value and price of the Crowns I wonder what it is.

Warm and lush while being detailed and transparent is what seems to be the traits of some of these tube pre's, sure would like to find out if that's true.

You need gain though, correct? There's a guy on DIYaudio that makes a crazy good buffer that's ignored largely. It has a certain pleasant sound due to the way it uses an inductor in it.

You might be able to make it sound warmer by putting a resistor inline near the amp. It increases the 2nd harmonic distortion and therefor warmth.

[Tomy2Tone]

Cryo'd Itube plus Astron 9v power supply with Reality Cables power cord will set you back about 500 bucks. This is a killer combo with the Crown XLS.

I have an itube I use at work. I was thinking if or when I decide to send in the crowns for the cryo treatment I would send the itube along with them.

Do they still make that Astron 9v or do you have to find a used one on eBay? I think I've looked before but couldn't find one.

[a.wayne]

I use to think they needed high power, then I found out it's coincidental due to a few things. Watts are watts, but only if and when they get to the speaker. However depending on the amp, they give a different impression of volume purely by perception. 8w tube amp that somehow can blow your ear drums, but you've got 250w SS to replace it?

The rule of thumb in general is that you need bigger amps in most situations, but it isn't true for the reason we like to think.

The Peak Power Demands of Well-recorded Music:


This attention-getting demonstration made many participants think twice about how much amplifier power is needed for the reproduction of well-recorded music that has good dynamic range.

Participants in this workshop were able to see in real time the very high peak-to-average power ratio (crest factor) of music while they were listening to it. The high crest factor of well-recorded music can place very high peak-power demands on a power amplifier even at modest listening levels when loudspeakers of average efficiency are employed. This workshop demonstrated why high-power amplifiers sometimes sound better. Amplifiers may clip more often than we think.

This demonstration was a real "Wow" for the attendees. The Rickie Lee Jones (RLJ) cut was played at realistic, but certainly not unpleasant, levels in the relatively small hotel exhibit room on speakers with an estimated sensitivity of about 89 dB. The average power typically read 1-2 Watts, while the power on peaks often topped 250 Watts (the power display monitored only one channel, so these numbers should be interpreted as Watts per channel). On this cut, most peaks occurred with an aggressive "thwack" to a snare drum positioned dead center. - Bob Cordell


http://www.cordellaudio.com/he2007/show_report.shtml

   

[Tomy2Tone]

You need gain though, correct? There's a guy on DIYaudio that makes a crazy good buffer that's ignored largely. It has a certain pleasant sound due to the way it uses an inductor in it.

You might be able to make it sound warmer by putting a resistor inline near the amp. It increases the 2nd harmonic distortion and therefor warmth.

Does he make them to sell or just shows you how to diy?

[DaveC113]

It makes me wonder if I should put more thought in getting another tube pre or not. Been looking at Melody PB 101 and some from Line Magnetic that look awesome but would be 5 times the cost of the Crowns. If there is a tube pre at the performance value and price of the Crowns I wonder what it is.

Warm and lush while being detailed and transparent is what seems to be the traits of some of these tube pre's, sure would like to find out if that's true.

I've found a tubed pre can be warm and still retain detail and transparency, but I'm not sure it can very affordable because of the parts costs involved. Good volume controls are expensive, so are good input/output jacks, caps or transformers, source switches, etc... it'll all add up to be fairly expensive.

The itube does seem pretty cool, but a bit limited in some ways.

[Folsom]

Does he make them to sell or just shows you how to diy?

He builds for people sometimes, but often just the circuit board essentially. I can put you in contact with him, PM me.

[OzarkTom]

Do they still make that Astron 9v or do you have to find a used one on eBay? I think I've looked before but couldn't find one.

You have to call Astron direct and order SL-11 and have them mod it, cost 95 bucks plus shipping. Cryoman sells that power cord for 65 bucks. These mods improves the Itube by at last 200%.

[Folsom]

That's a lot of money for an Astron.