Crown XLS- for the rest of us!

jmdesignz2 · « **Reply #660 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 12:22 am »

Anyone know the ee reasons why this works?

dlaloum · « **Reply #661 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 12:28 am »

Isn't that the same as using the old style of transformer based power conditioner?

wushuliu · « **Reply #662 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 12:33 am »

Quote from: jmdesignz2 on 13 Dec 2014, 12:22 am

Anyone know the ee reasons why this works?

It's based on the Richards Gray Power Conditioners from 10 years ago. Someone opened one up and voila found chokes with similar values. In fact this was discovered/discussed first right here on AC, some 10 years ago. If you the 'ee' reasons I suggest googling the audio asylum forum, you'll find a good 7 years or so of discussion. The post by Jon Risch and Al Sekela in particular discuss the how and whys. In a nutshell the chokes are power conditioners. And they do a hell of a job...

Tomy2Tone · « **Reply #663 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 12:33 am »

Quote from: dlaloum on 13 Dec 2014, 12:28 am

Isn't that the same as using the old style of transformer based power conditioner?

From what I read about it , yes. Don't know who the guy was but supposedly this tweak started when he bought a $1000 conditioner and decided to open it up and realized all it had was these chokes.

Once he got the word out guys were buying these or something similar to these Hammonds and were having remarkable results.

Edit..Yeah, what wushuliu just said.

maplegrovemusic · « **Reply #664 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 12:45 am »

Need to adjust numbers on thread posted earlier . At the time my landlord did the watt test i had a crown xls 1500 and 2500 running . So the 71 watts at idle and 75 playing music was for the two amps in bridged mode.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #665 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 01:43 am »

Oops, sorry, I just bought the last 193m in stock at Parts Express.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #666 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 01:50 am »

Ha, I got the one before you Tom.

Should be interesting to see if it offers any improvement in addition to the SurgeX's conditioning... if so I may add it to the SurgeX, but it would have to be top mounted as it won't fit inside.

Actually, it still says 1 left in stock, maybe they are fudging to create a sense of urgency...

Tomy2Tone · « **Reply #667 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 01:53 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 13 Dec 2014, 01:43 am

Oops, sorry, I just bought the last 193m in stock at Parts Express.

Nice!

Each choke I added I could tell a difference, but it wasn't until I put in the third 193m that it really went to another level of performance. It's a fun tweak to play around with depending on which outlet you place it in. And like everything else in this hobby, it could be system dependent as far as results go.

If you've had harshness before this could help elviate if not eliminate it.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #668 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 02:06 am »

Quote from: a.wayne on 12 Dec 2014, 10:17 pm

At this rate , Roscoe will end up with every amp known to man.....

Yes, that is my plan.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #669 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 02:09 am »

Can someone point me to a good link or thread about these chokes?

roscoeiii · « **Reply #670 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 02:11 am »

Jack comes by with the ncore tomorrow. Then the tour amp goes to Chris and the cryo goes to OzarkTom. Lots of fun listening ahead and then I will make a final amp decision (well, final for now).

wushuliu · « **Reply #671 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 02:35 am »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 13 Dec 2014, 02:09 am

Can someone point me to a good link or thread about these chokes?

All I can suggest is doing a search here on AC and google search audioasylum. Most of the posts are at audioasylum and their forum can be messy to weed through.

EDIT: Here is a post I made a few years ago if you scroll down I explain how to make one and there are some links to further info.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=81223.0

Odal3 · « **Reply #672 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 03:11 am »

...and my arc welder (aka xls 2000) arrived today. Looking forward to some testing this weekend.

BTW: since we are on pro-audio equipment, what would be a good pre-amp and/or mixer that would work with RCA inputs that would match the value /price ratio the Crown xls has?

Folsom · « **Reply #673 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 04:20 am »

If you run the amp in monoblock and expect to use more than 200w or think you're being demanding w/speakers in stereo, I'd consider a larger choke than the 193L/M. But I wouldn't use one personally to start.

wushuliu · « **Reply #674 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 04:50 am »

Quote from: Salis Audio on 13 Dec 2014, 04:20 am

If you run the amp in monoblock and expect to use more than 200w or think you're being demanding w/speakers in stereo, I'd consider a larger choke than the 193L/M. But I wouldn't use one personally to start.

Do you have any experience with using the 193L or M?

Folsom · « **Reply #675 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 06:16 am »

Quote from: wushuliu on 13 Dec 2014, 04:50 am

Do you have any experience with using the 193L or M?

They're rated at 3A, and their resistance is through the roof. Without the right device and some thought into coupling you'll get a much more moderate upgrade than possible.

The XLS is designed such I doubt it matters as much. But running at or above a chokes rating will slowly melt the coils together.

barrows · « **Reply #676 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 02:40 pm »

Salis, these guys are talking about running this choke in parallel to the AC line as a sort of "power conditioner" (yes, I know it is odd) not in series as a DC choke (the part's intended purpose of course).

rollo · « **Reply #677 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 03:11 pm »

Quote from: Tomy2Tone on 13 Dec 2014, 01:53 am

Nice!

Each choke I added I could tell a difference, but it wasn't until I put in the third 193m that it really went to another level of performance. It's a fun tweak to play around with depending on which outlet you place it in. And like everything else in this hobby, it could be system dependent as far as results go.

If you've had harshness before this could help elviate if not eliminate it.

Chokes will soften the sound. Is the Crown harsh , lean and or bright ? It appears the chokes are acting like tone controls. Is the Crown power supply choke regulated to begin with ? If not try an NOS oil choke and be very happy.

charles

wushuliu · « **Reply #678 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 03:22 pm »

Quote from: barrows on 13 Dec 2014, 02:40 pm

Salis, these guys are talking about running this choke in parallel to the AC line as a sort of "power conditioner" (yes, I know it is odd) not in series as a DC choke (the part's intended purpose of course).

Remember this goes to back to the Richard Gray Power Conditioners. This didn't come out of thin air. I think it was AC's own Morrow Audio in fact that did the original article that sparked the tweak discussion here in 2004. However Richard Gray had them pull the page down. I just don't feel like spending time to go through all the audio asylum posts again to collate the relevant parts and cut and paste just to play proxy defense against armchair analysis. There are 7 years worth of positive feedback on the chokes there, here, and on other forums as well. They work. And the results are evident in less than 30 minutes.

Of course one could also buy a RGPC on ebay. They seem to run about $250-2000 depending.

wushuliu · « **Reply #679 on:** 13 Dec 2014, 03:23 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 13 Dec 2014, 03:11 pm

Chokes will soften the sound. Is the Crown harsh , lean and or bright ? It appears the chokes are acting like tone controls. Is the Crown power supply choke regulated to begin with ? If not try an NOS oil choke and be very happy.
charles

The chokes are not tone controls. IME and others they behave as conditioners - they lower the noise floor, greatly reduce digititis, bring out more detail, increase dimensionality. For video the blacks are deeper, colors are richer and more lifelike, etc. Again all quite noticeable in under 30 minutes.