[DaveC113]

I'm still using the Crown in my system, it's a great match. Uncompressed transients at higher volumes are nice! 

[barrows]

Yeah, hope to try out the ncore,  but also thought a meatier class d like Wyred, Red Dragon or DAC Cherry could be good matches. Guy I bought them from ran Wyred, and some Red Dragon amps are available locally used.

Not sure I would call ICEpower based amps like W4S and Red Dragon meatier than nCore (nCore bass is better)...  I would say they are dark and quite veiled in comparison to the clarity of nCore.  I own a pair of DIY mono blocks based on ICEpower ASP500 modules (with mods), and my nCore DIY stereo amp is in another league.  If you want to get a little more body out of nCore be sure to replace the AC input wiring with something of more gauge and higher quality, and replace the signal input wiring as well.  A little RF damping goes a long way as well.  To me the nCore are dead neutral, and just expose the rest of the system for what it is, so to get the best out of a system with nCore amplification you do not want lean speakers, source components, or wires.

[Tomy2Tone]

Not sure I would call ICEpower based amps like W4S and Red Dragon meatier than nCore (nCore bass is better)...  I would say they are dark and quite veiled in comparison to the clarity of nCore.  I own a pair of DIY mono blocks based on ICEpower ASP500 modules (with mods), and my nCore DIY stereo amp is in another league.  If you want to get a little more body out of nCore be sure to replace the AC input wiring with something of more gauge and higher quality, and replace the signal input wiring as well.  A little RF damping goes a long way as well.  To me the nCore are dead neutral, and just expose the rest of the system for what it is, so to get the best out of a system with nCore amplification you do not want lean speakers, source components, or wires.

I agree that the ICE amps in W4S are a little more veiled even compared to Pascal and the Crown amp that's going around.

Barrows, have you heard an NC400 bridged mono pair with 1200smps?  I've read on another thread its a little more musical and warm compared to the standard mono version.

Hopefully roscoeiii gets the cryo crown soon and compare to the others.

[dlaloum]

Problem with bridging is you get quite a different amp as a result... current is more constrained, and it tends to work better with speakers that have higher impedances....

If the speaker is somewhat reactive and has a bottom impedance of circa 2 ohm, bridging probably won't improve things....

If the impedance bottoms out at around 4 or 6 ohm then bridging may well be ok, and given the additional headroom, most likely an improvement!

I really don't think you can look at an amp in isolation without considering the speakers it is driving....

I experimented with bridging my Onkyo - results were not so hot into the Gallo's. (improvement in the high end, some degradation in the bass - to be expected given the drop in impedance at around 100Hz)

I don't know how class-d amps respond to bridging, but I would assume the current limitations are much the same....

[barrows]

Yeah bridging the nCore makes little sense to me, all you get is more voltage, and less current.  Might as well pick up a NC-1200 based amp if you really need more power.  But, if you have 8 ohm speakers with a minimum at 5 ohms or something, then maybe.  But at that point the NC-1200 based amps start making sense (except for the cheap IC based input stage...)
IMO, if you need something different tonally out of the nCore DIY modules, then you should be looking at your source or speakers as the culprit.

[OzarkTom]

So about what I figured. A very decent amp for the money and will do second system duty quite well, but it's no Ncore.

I had both the NC400's and 1200's here and they were very harsh, especially on the weekends. No sysnergy at Rex's either in St. louis. Rex would have bought a pair if he had liked them. Rex has owned almost every amp ever made.

But those were the tour amps, maybe other Ncores don't have that problem. I wanted to like them, I even bought a pair of those fancy faceplates from jtwrace, you know, the ones that you promised to buy but never did.

The Crown amp does have the magic on my reference Zellaton Emotion speakers, anybody that wants to stop by my place and listen, is welcome.

[roscoeiii]

Problem with bridging is you get quite a different amp as a result... current is more constrained, and it tends to work better with speakers that have higher impedances....

If the speaker is somewhat reactive and has a bottom impedance of circa 2 ohm, bridging probably won't improve things....

If the impedance bottoms out at around 4 or 6 ohm then bridging may well be ok, and given the additional headroom, most likely an improvement!

I really don't think you can look at an amp in isolation without considering the speakers it is driving....

I experimented with bridging my Onkyo - results were not so hot into the Gallo's. (improvement in the high end, some degradation in the bass - to be expected given the drop in impedance at around 100Hz)

I don't know how class-d amps respond to bridging, but I would assume the current limitations are much the same....

Yes I haven't been able to track down impedance info on the SP Tech speakers so bridged mono amps worry me since I don't know how low the impedance dips.

I'm gonna try as many burly high powered amps as I can into the SP Tech. And we'll see what mates best. DAC, Wyred and Red Dragon have all been recommended so I hope to be able to try them out in addition to ncore and the XLS. Thanks to all who have given their impressions. Tho truly a matter of match of alp with speakers (and the resulting sound's fit with the listener's preferences)  that carries the day.

[dburna]

IMO, if you need something different tonally out of the nCore DIY modules, then you should be looking at your source or speakers as the culprit.

Thank you, sir.  This has been my experience exactly.  When I plugged the NCores into my system, I definitely heard certain deficiencies in my system, but experimenting with other components has led me to find shortcomings elsewhere, even in my choice of media player software.  NCore isn't perfect -- no component is -- but it has had fewer artifacts than most anything I've had in the playback chain.  I'm sure there are some mismatches with certain systems, but I have found it to reveal more flaws than commit them.  Of course, everyone has different goals and tastes, so in the end I guess my experience with NCore proves nothing.....except to me.   

Regards,  -dB

[OzarkTom]

Yes I haven't been able to track down impedance info on the SP Tech speakers so bridged mono amps worry me since I don't know how low the impedance dips.

I'm gonna try as many burly high powered amps as I can into the SP Tech. And we'll see what mates best. DAC, Wyred and Red Dragon have all been recommended so I hope to be able to try them out in addition to ncore and the XLS. Thanks to all who have given their impressions. Tho truly a matter of match of alp with speakers (and the resulting sound's fit with the listener's preferences)  that carries the day.

It is very nice to have these amp tours here on AC, I don't see them anywhere else. You get to see if they match in your system or not. That saves  a lot of hassle.

I would hate to be a dealer today with so many dealers offering a money back 30 day trial. But the customers needs that with most of them being internet sales since most of the brick and mortar dealers are gone. If someone had the extra bucks, he could try out a new amp or speakers every month. :roll

[dlaloum]

Urgh - it takes me at least 40 hours of tweaking, adjusting, measuring and listening to start to get a feel for a component... and the more subtle the difference (and amp differences are often subtle!) the longer it takes.

It is always very tricky working out whether it is psychoacoustics kicking in, or whether it is a real difference - our minds play tricks on us!

I tested a bunch of cartridges a few years back - they were level matched to within 3db - lots of differences everywhere - then I worked out how to level match to within less than 0.5db - suddenly 90% of the differences disappeared! And these difference - perceptually - were tonal in some cases, detail and imaging in others - and all of them were level variance fog! (well - almost all)

The idea of testing an amp a month is a nightmare unless I was doing it full time....

On the other hand - switching to the XLS amps was an immediate "ahah"  moment, as soon as I put on the Choral movement of Beethovens 9th Symphony, I knew this was just what the speakers needed.

Now if I had two amps of similar capabilities and was trying to differentiate between them - that is a whole different ball of wax.

On the other hand it is a few years since I had the all Quad system running - so you can take my comparison with a grain of salt - however  having made all the appropriate caveats, the setup is now achieving things in the Bass that the Quads never did, along with detail and imaging in the highs that is on a par with the Quads...
Only way to really know whether the mids and highs are on a par with the stats is back to back testing, which is not an option for me now, but they are most certainly at the same overall level of performance.

[ted_b]

Yes I haven't been able to track down impedance info on the SP Tech speakers so bridged mono amps worry me since I don't know how low the impedance dips.

I'm gonna try as many burly high powered amps as I can into the SP Tech. And we'll see what mates best. DAC, Wyred and Red Dragon have all been recommended so I hope to be able to try them out in addition to ncore and the XLS. Thanks to all who have given their impressions. Tho truly a matter of match of alp with speakers (and the resulting sound's fit with the listener's preferences)  that carries the day.

I spoke with Bob last night for quite some time.  First, he is a former Crown amplifier guru (worked for them for many years and knows about the XLS).  Second, he says his impedance doesn't dip too low at all, and that the Crowns bridged should be no issues. 

[dlaloum]

Heheh, that means you can get a bit more headroom from them!.... that is a LOT of Watts

[roscoeiii]

I spoke with Bob last night for quite some time.  First, he is a former Crown amplifier guru (worked for them for many years and knows about the XLS).  Second, he says his impedance doesn't dip too low at all, and that the Crowns bridged should be no issues. 

Much appreciated Ted. That's great news. Waiting for the 2nd XLS to arrive...

[Russell Dawkins]

I spoke with Bob last night for quite some time.  First, he is a former Crown amplifier guru (worked for them for many years and knows about the XLS).  Second, he says his impedance doesn't dip too low at all, and that the Crowns bridged should be no issues. 

Didn't he also use a Crown Macro Reference as his amp when he developed the Timepieces, Continuums and Revelations (great name, by the way)? Until he blew it, or something?

No replacement for displacement, they used to say in certain 4 wheel circles.

How is Bob now? I hope he is getting some satisfaction out of life; he's earned it.

[OzarkTom]

The cryoman says he can cryo these Crowns for 35 bucks plus the shipping back to you.

[Tomy2Tone]

The cryoman says he can cryo these Crowns for 35 bucks plus the shipping back to you.

Good to know, thanks!

Hopefully roscoeiii will receive it soon and be the first to compare the stock vs cryo version. I may be sending mine in if he thinks its a definite improvement.

[roscoeiii]

The cryoman says he can cryo these Crowns for 35 bucks plus the shipping back to you.

Talked to him today and amp should be on its way.

[PeteG]

Much appreciated Ted. That's great news. Waiting for the 2nd XLS to arrive...

Interested in how the mono amps sound with your sptech's, also any fan noise.

[OzarkTom]

Roscoe, can you bi-amp those speakers?

[roscoeiii]

Yes, biamping is an option.