[Tomy2Tone]

Oh, No  the avatar will have no influence on my decision. I've owned Crown equipment since the 80's. I still use a Crown straight line two preamp

I know, I was joking with ya. 

[randytsuch]

If any of us are having trouble driving our XLS amp because of low output gain from a preamp, source, or receiver. Home Theater Direct makes an adjustable line level gain boost ($35.00) up to +12db, and it uses 12v dc for power.

http://www.htd.com/Products/line-level-gain-boosters/LGB-1

Chris

Thanks for the link Chris.
I use an older crown, the XLS202 for a sub amp, and was looking for a little more gain.  I might give this a go.
For the price, it is likely a switching PS and a simple op amp circuit, but for my application it should be fine.


I don't remember if I posted  this in the other thread, but here's a FYI for you guys.

My 202 was kind of noisy, the fan is too loud for me in the stock amp.

I was thinking of replacing the fan, but I came across some info at diyaudio where a guy just added a power resistor to slow the fan down.

So I installed a 150ohm, 10 watt resistor that I had in my spare parts drawer, and while it still is audible, once the music starts you can't hear fan noise any more.  10 watts is probably overkill too, but I haven't bothered to figure out how large I really need, and it's what I had anyway.

I may try a 250 ohm resistor, and see how that works.  I'm just using this as a sub amp, and it barely gets warm, so I don't expect any problems. 

Obviously would void your warranty if performed on a newish XLS amp.

Randy

[Tomy2Tone]

I'm wondering if anybody will notice the fan on the XLS. When I had just one running in stereo for a full range setup I never really knew the fan was even on.

Now that I have two running bridge mono, the only time I notice the fans is when it's late at night and I turn the volume all the way down on the preamp. So they do make noise,when their both running at the same time but under normal circumstances with music playing its a non issue for me.

Others may be more sensitive than me though. I did open one and disconnected the fan and noticed after a while the top was warm to the touch and the led lights on the front were lit up red which according to the manual means either its clipping or thermal compression is beginning. So the fans are doing their job.

[jackman]

Zak should also try his Crown amp with his main speakers while using the high pass crossover, trying different settings according to his subs and the other Crown. That might make a bigger difference than running them in monos. One amp I tried that with had an improvement at least 20%.

Jack, if you have time, you can try that also.

I'll do my best to try it.  Hopefully the Crown is idiot-proof because it's going to have to be for me.  My system has the nCore on the monitors with external passive xovers, running full range.  Everything is measured with an Omnimic and the subs are active DCX2496, powered by a Crown K1.  The Crown runs silent and has no fan.  It rarely gets above warm unless I REALLY push system at high levels with bass heavy music.  I've never come close to thermal overload. 

For the evaluation, I'm going to run my speakers directly with the new Crown and turn off the subs.  I'll try it with the subs as well and match levels.  Not sure if I will test versus the K1 on the monitors but I already know that solution does not sound as good as the nCOre.  Everything is plugged into the wall directly, my power is very clean here and the stereo is on its own circuit so there is no issue with light dimmers or cable boxes, etc. 

If the high pass high pass filter is easy to use, I'll give it a shot.  I try to use as little processing as possible, even with my sub, I try to use as little active EQ as possible.

[werd]

I'm wondering if anybody will notice the fan on the XLS. When I had just one running in stereo for a full range setup I never really knew the fan was even on.

Now that I have two running bridge mono, the only time I notice the fans is when it's late at night and I turn the volume all the way down on the preamp. So they do make noise,when their both running at the same time but under normal circumstances with music playing its a non issue for me.

Others may be more sensitive than me though. I did open one and disconnected the fan and noticed after a while the top was warm to the touch and the led lights on the front were lit up red which according to the manual means either its clipping or thermal compression is beginning. So the fans are doing their job.

Try cutting air supply holes on the top like on a regular amplifier. I would want to disconnect the fan but you need more ventilation. Or take the top right off

[Tomy2Tone]

Try cutting air supply holes on the top like on a regular amplifier. I would want to disconnect the fan but you need more ventilation. Or take the top right off

That's an idea! But like I said the fan noise to me is not much of an issue, but cutting some holes on top would be pretty easy to to do to find out if it works.

I had some carpenters I know get me some two inch maples blocks to put under each XLS 1500 I have and at first thought it sounded too dead. But after some adjustments it's sounding better than ever.

The 3d, detailed, clear as day presentation is really impressive. And like ZAKski288 mentioned before the performance at low volume levels is great as well with drums still having that kick and punch while not losing any detail in the rest of the instruments and vocals.

Hey DaveC113, can you describe you're setup again and what SET you were comparing the crown to?  I'm going to assume you were using your cables with crown, which is what I'm doing. The ZenWave speaker cables and interconnects seem like a perfect match with the crown. I look forward to firing up the system everyday now.

[werd]

That's an idea! But like I said the fan noise to me is not much of an issue, but cutting some holes on top would be pretty easy to to do to find out if it works.

I had some carpenters I know get me some two inch maples blocks to put under each XLS 1500 I have and at first thought it sounded too dead. But after some adjustments it's sounding better than ever.

The 3d, detailed, clear as day presentation is really impressive. And like ZAKski288 mentioned before the performance at low volume levels is great as well with drums still having that kick and punch while not losing any detail in the rest of the instruments and vocals.

Hey DaveC113, can you describe you're setup again and what SET you were comparing the crown to?  I'm going to assume you were using your cables with crown, which is what I'm doing. The ZenWave speaker cables and interconnects seem like a perfect match with the crown. I look forward to firing up the system everyday now.

Try with the lid off first. With the lid off and you still see red, cutting holes will be pointless.

[ZAKski288]

 I know I wanted to upgrade my audio rack. There is a guy close that is selling old bowling lane sections, 2 1/2" thick maple or yellow pine. I'm going to have to check it out.

[Tomy2Tone]

I know I wanted to upgrade my audio rack. There is a guy close that is selling old bowling lane sections, 2 1/2" thick maple or yellow pine. I'm going to have to check it out.

I wasn't looking for any real marked improvement by going 2" maple but the opportunity was there to mimic what Mapleshade sells on their webpage for much less.

And really I wanted to go mono in the first place so I didn't have to have long cables to run from pre to amp to speaker. So in the end it just worked out!

[randytsuch]

Try with the lid off first. With the lid off and you still see red, cutting holes will be pointless.

I know if it was me cutting holes in the top would be the last resort.

My amp has soldered wires between the fan and mainboard, no connectors, so I had to splice into the wires to add a resistor.

If you have a connection, you could make an adapter and not have to splice, so warranty becomes a non issue.

Randy

[Folsom]

What size are the fans?

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g36/c437/list/p1/Fans-12_Volt_Fans_by_dB.html

[rodge827]

Try with the lid off first. With the lid off and you still see red, cutting holes will be pointless.

This will be a real dumb question but I have to ask.

Will taking the top off of gear and defeating the fan be the same as leaving the top on and fan running?

I have a couple of Tripp Lite double conversion UPS's that make a lot of fan noise and taking the top off is a very attractive option for me. I have them in another room and run a Romex "extension cord" to an outlet that I plug my gear into. I would like to put them closer to the gear they are protecting.

Chris

[rodge827]

Another question,

In an earlier thread it was written that the XLS amps have their own internal power conditioning.

Does this make using a power conditioner obsolete with the XLS's?

Can they be plugged directly into the wall and sound the same as if additional conditioning were used?

Chris

[randytsuch]

This will be a real dumb question but I have to ask.

Will taking the top off of gear and defeating the fan be the same as leaving the top on and fan running?

I have a couple of Tripp Lite double conversion UPS's that make a lot of fan noise and taking the top off is a very attractive option for me. I have them in another room and run a Romex "extension cord" to an outlet that I plug my gear into. I would like to put them closer to the gear they are protecting.

Chris

Short answer no.  In my older crown, the fans are blowing across the heatsinks.  They even have some cardboard in them to help direct the airflow across the heatsinks.

Taking off the cover will help cool things off, but its not the same as blowing air across the hot parts.

EDIT:
But I should add it depends on your unit.  It's easy enough to try, and see what happens.  But I think you'll probably have better luck applying the things silent PC guys use, quiet fans, and then undervolting the fans so it runs slower and quieter.

Salis
The crown (mine and the new ones) are 3.5 inches tall, so the fans are likely to be 80mm fans.

And that's one of the problems.  It's much easier to find quiet 120mm fans.

FYI, there are also fan controllers made for PC applications that let you control the speed of the fan.  Not sure if they would work in the crown or not.

Randy

[OzarkTom]

Another question,

In an earlier thread it was written that the XLS amps have their own internal power conditioning.

Does this make using a power conditioner obsolete with the XLS's?

Can they be plugged directly into the wall and sound the same as if additional conditioning were used?

Chris

I plug mine directly in the wall, even with my bad AC, very smooth souunding. Even at whisper volume, I never hear any fan noise. They probably never come on at those volumes.

[srb]

Will taking the top off of gear and defeating the fan be the same as leaving the top on and fan running?

It may be adequate to prevent overheating, but forced air cooling usually can reduce the temperature much further than passive convection cooling.  Convection cooling does work better if there are slots or holes in the bottom of the chassis.

A thermometer might help you make a decision on the TrippLite.  I had looked into some super convenient point and shoot IR thermometers, but the consensus I get is that budget ones are often very inaccurate and can produce varying readings with multiple captures.  While feeling for temperatures with the hand may work for covers and external heat sinks, it's not exactly a safe practice to monitor internal parts and assemblies on live 120V/240V equipment.

From a safety standpoint, I don't like to have exposed chassis (cover removed) where high voltages exist.

Steve

[rodge827]

Thanks gents, I guess it 's a try and see proposition. I don't have an XLS as of yet, and I'm waiting on the tour amp to get here when Jackman is done with his evaluations. I have been trying to pressure this guy on CL to break up his gear package (no not what some of you are thinking..gutter minds ) and buy a used one on the cheap. So far no luck!

Having open gear is not an issue for me. My audio room stays locked and my dog doesn't like to climb the stairs. S \o no worries there.

Chris 

[Russell Dawkins]

I'm wondering if anybody will notice the fan on the XLS. When I had just one running in stereo for a full range setup I never really knew the fan was even on.

Now that I have two running bridge mono, the only time I notice the fans is when it's late at night and I turn the volume all the way down on the preamp. So they do make noise,when their both running at the same time but under normal circumstances with music playing its a non issue for me.

Others may be more sensitive than me though. I did open one and disconnected the fan and noticed after a while the top was warm to the touch and the led lights on the front were lit up red which according to the manual means either its clipping or thermal compression is beginning. So the fans are doing their job.

I'm surprised to read this, having read earlier that a user never had the fan come on at all, even under hard use.

I would be cautious about disconnecting the fan or thinking taking the top off would be a valid solution because, as was mentioned, there is often cardboard or plastic ducting to guide airflow exactly where it is needed and convection cooling might not be enough.

[werd]

This will be a real dumb question but I have to ask.

Will taking the top off of gear and defeating the fan be the same as leaving the top on and fan running?

I have a couple of Tripp Lite double conversion UPS's that make a lot of fan noise and taking the top off is a very attractive option for me. I have them in another room and run a Romex "extension cord" to an outlet that I plug my gear into. I would like to put them closer to the gear they are protecting.

Chris

The fans are there because there is no convection cooling. An amp this size in class D shouldn't over heat with the top off and no fans. They wanna use more rugged road assembly so they give you a solid chassis is my guess.

For fanless  convection cooling 

[Russell Dawkins]

If any of us are having trouble driving our XLS amp because of low output gain from a preamp, source, or receiver. Home Theater Direct makes an adjustable line level gain boost ($35.00) up to +12db, and it uses 12v dc for power.

http://www.htd.com/Products/line-level-gain-boosters/LGB-1

Chris

It's worth mentioning that Crown's specs on the amps mention that 1.4 v will drive the amps to full output. The typical output from a CD player is 2 volt on peaks (0 dB), so getting adequate level should not be a problem.