[OzarkTom]

I've noticed on Parts Express that 'new and improved' Crown XTi 2 Series amp are available. They appear to have ~30% more power and are quite a bit more expensive. Any thoughts or experience with these?

I've located someone in my area who is asking $300 for a Crown XLS 1500. It's 5 months old. His asking price seems a bit high. Any suggestions on a more reasonable bid from me without pissing him off too much?

Thanks.

Michael

They are new on Amazon for $325, $250 would be the tops that I would offer.

[Folsom]

The Crown XTi 2 looks unrelated, lower SNR, higher distortion.

It's got a bunch of transistors. Maybe they're to have variable rails or something.

[wushuliu]

XLS: So an extra $1000 gets you the 10% more of an ncore. Not bad...

[xsb7244]

OzarkTom,

Who is cryoman?  Does he have a website?  Please give details.

[a.wayne]

OK,  a more in depth write-up from my afternoon with Jack will need to come later. But what really transformed the XLS in his system? Plugging it into a power conditioner. My Running Springs Haley. Night and day difference in his system,  with his AC power. Prior to the Haley, the amp was too forward and bright in Jack's system.  Felt a bit harsh with his speakers, which I'd say are a bit forward,  until the conditioner came into the picture. But then bam! Much more impressive, with great detail and oomph.

Now did they have the magic of the ncore in his system? No. But lemme tell you, ncore is a magical pairing with those speakers. Just great synergy there. So no shame in the XLS game when getting good power. I am also very interested I how the XLS sounds with the more laid back Von Schweikert speakers at my place. Will try that combo out shortly.

What speakers ? could you be more specific as to Jacks setup ............

[roscoeiii]

Don't recall all the specifics or models. Jack will have to provide those. The speakers are Bamberg.

[Tomy2Tone]

Here's an update on the tour list for everybody...

Jackman/Roscoeiii- Chicago

rodge827- Jersey

mjosef- Brooklyn

SteveFord- PA

jtsnead- MD

Freo-1- MA

zapper7- NV

Peter J- ID

S Clark- TX

gregfisk- WA

Hopefully Jackman will chime in pretty soon with an official review! 

[a.wayne]

 

[wushuliu]

Lol, yeah. I think we get the gist anyway. On to rodge...

[roscoeiii]

Give jackman some time. We ended up pretty late yesterday  and he's been slammed with work. He'll be around soon enough with impressions.

[Tomy2Tone]

Give jackman some time. We ended up pretty late yesterday  and he's been slammed with work. He'll be around soon enough with impressions.

Are you in possession of the amp now roscoe? If so, would love to know what you think of it with the Von Scweikerts.

[roscoeiii]

Yeah, I've got it. Going to a concert tonight (what?!? Actual live music instead of evaluating an map's capability on recorded music!?!!),  so won't be able to hook it up until tomorrow at the earliest. But I have 3 pairs of speakers I can pair it with.

[OzarkTom]

Until then, if anyone is searching for a good used Crown amp on Craigslist, I use searchtempest.com. This allows you to search all of Craigslist all over the country. That is how I found all of the good deals that I have found. You will see a lot of DJ and PA systems for sale. Some of those people well sell their amps separately, some won't. Some are asking higher prices than Ebay, some less. I always buy by Paypal if they will take it.

There use to be Craiglook, which was much easier and faster than searchtempest, but Craigslist shut them down a few years ago for some reason. I guess Craigslist was too jealous.

[WireNut]

Until then, if anyone is searching for a good used Crown amp on Craigslist, I use searchtempest.com. This allows you to search all of Craigslist all over the country. That is how I found all of the good deals that I have found. You will see a lot of DJ and PA systems for sale. Some of those people well sell their amps separately, some won't. Some are asking higher prices than Ebay, some less. I always buy by Paypal if they will take it.

There use to be Craiglook, which was much easier and faster than searchtempest, but Craigslist shut them down a few years ago for some reason. I guess Craigslist was too jealous.

I just tried it. Great tip. Thank you 

[Odal3]

That's great search tip. Thanks for sharing!

[OzarkTom]

New 1500 is now $321 on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003HZV2JS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A5ZRC4DPYV13E

[jackman]

New 1500 is now $321 on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003HZV2JS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A5ZRC4DPYV13E

I thought PartsExpress had a $40 off special on the Crown (~$310 or so).  Don't know if it's still going but I noticed it last week. 

[jackman]

Hi Guys,

I'm sorry about the delay, but I've been really slammed with family and work commitments, etc.  Special thanks to Tommy for shipping out the amp and generously letting me play around with it for a week.  Regarding my system, I have Bamberg Audio Series 5 MTM speakers, an SAS Audio 10A preamp (modded to reduce gain to 7db), Jena Labs cables, external xovers made by Bamberg Audio, nCore dual mono amp (with separate power supplies, in a single chassis) and a Crown K1/Behringer DCX2494 powering the dual subwoofer stands. 

The speakers are the older MTM version of this speaker, http://bambergaudio.com/products/series5/5tmw.php.  They are very transparent and detailed with excellent bass extension.  The speakers are a relatively easy to drive 4ohms.  My room has been measured and adjusted with an Omni-Mic and measures relatively flat at the listening position.  Also, the amp tested (and my current Ncore) only drives the monitors as the subs are powered separately. 

I'll fill in additional details on the listening session later today, but I will cut to the chase.  The Crown XLS 1500 is a true bargain and was very impressive, even at full retail price.  It drove my speakers to very high levels without breaking a sweat.  The amp is VERY lightweight, compact and well constructed.  It ran DEAD silent in my system and I could not hear the fan from my listening position. 

I listed to it over the course of a week and went through all of my favorite recordings; Jazz, Rock/Blues, Classical, etc.  During this time, I did not use a power conditioner.  Soundstage was pretty good, but not the best, tonality was relatively neutral (certainly better than anything I've ever heard in this price range), but it sounded a bit steely, forward and slightly 2 dimensional.  At higher volumes levels there is definitely a "cringe factor" and too much energy in the upper frequencies.  For the money, it's a great bargain and it might be a better match for speakers that are darker or more laid back. 

So, how did it compare to the nCore?  In my system, the nCore sounded much (MUCH BETTER) better overall.  nCore had more detail, wider/deeper soundstage, and just sounded better in my system. The nCore envelopes you with sound, and is a perfect match for my speakers/system.   The difference between the two amps was not small, however the price difference between the amps is considerable. The Crown was very dynamic and did not lack for power.  It's amazing an amp this tiny can be this powerful, but it is!  I'd seriously consider it for subwoofer duties and will when my K1 (or DCX) dies.  The 1500 has a built-in xover and low pass filter which would be great for a subwoofer. 

Fast forward to Sunday afternoon, when AC's own Roscoeiii arrived with his stack of CD's and power conditioner.  We listened to several CD's on my system (with the Crown) and were both very surprised by how good it sounded.  The soundstage depth and forward "steely" character of the amp, however, became apparent to Roscoe and I...when the amp was plugged into the wall directly.  After the Running Springs power conditioner entered the fray, the Crown sounded much better.  The tonal issues improved and the amp was much less forward.  Soundstage was still about the same, but it was much more listenable.  In fact, it sounded so much better, we decided to plug in the nCore to see how they stacked up.  After a couple minutes, it became apparent, the nCore performs at a totally different level than the Crown.  I would not describe it at 10% or 20% better.  In my system, the nCore is magic and the Crown is very good, for the money.  I could not live with the Crown as an every day amp in my system because of the tonal issues, forward character and the soundstage depth. 

All of the listening took place with the nCore plugged directly into the wall.  We decided to try it with the RS Hailey power conditioner and neither of us thought the conditioner improved the sound of the nCOre.  It seemed to dull it down and kill some of the inner detail.  I am going to do some additional evaluations but it seemed pretty obvious that the nCore was most happy being plugged into the wall directly, without any power conditioning. 

I look forward to trying the cryo'd version and will probably buy one of these amps someday.  Before I compared it directly to the nCore, I thought it sounded very good.  For the money, I don't think the Crown can be beat, especially if you have hard to drive or inefficient speakers, and if you like to play them at very high levels! 

Lastly, we used the magic wooden pucks and I owe Tommy for the one my JRT dog, Daisy, chewed to pieces (the others are okay).  She loves the taste of cedar!  Did not notice a difference but they are cheap and a very low risk proposition (you can always use them to ward off moths in your closet or clothes drawers).  Thanks again for the opportunity to hear this very cool, little powerhouse of an amp.  It was very impressive and it offers serious bang for the buck! 

[roscoeiii]

Not much more I'd add to what Jack said. The use of the Running Springs Haley is a nice reminder that not only do we have to pay attention to speaker pairing, but that the quality of the AC reaching the amp can also make a big difference. It is as drastic an improvement as I have heard using a power conditioner. Of course, it may seem silly to pay big bucks for a conditioner with such an inexpensive amp, but you would also likely also get some benefit (and protection if the conditioner has surge protection built in) for all of the components plugged into a conditioner. I'd certainly be curious if a less expensive conditioner like an ADC would also provide improvement. In general, what conditioner works with what gear, and what incoming AC problems is a bit of a crapshoot.

Next up, the Von Schweikerts with the Crown, which will be using an Equitech 2Q conditioner, since I left the Running Springs with Jack for him to listen to for a while longer in his system.

[Folsom]

Jack, maybe you should listen to OTom's after I've done a few mods to it. The first mod (I didn't have to order anything) instantly brought better tone. I haven't had time to burn it in. My buddy wants to try it but his high end Analysis+ cables are spades so I've got to figure something out that won't scratch up his expensive cables. I don't understand the binding posts on this... SpeakONs yes, but the binding posts are silly.