An open letter to RMAF Vendors 2014

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Don_S

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #80 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:27 pm »

When others clearly can make it work (and make it work well) I find very little logic in stating otherwise. But to each their own. Also lets watch the condescension- that goes for everyone.

I hate when people go +1 but I have to do it here.  Very well said.  +1

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #81 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:33 pm »
Look at it this way....  In many cases, these shows - as opposed to a "REAL" trade show (think CES) -  is more for the end user than the dealer network.  Given the scarcity of brick and mortar stores anymore, these shows have become substitutes, and as such, customers want to be treated as they would at a dealership.  So, logically, playing their choice of music is understandable.  After all, as a customer, how would you like to have driven 150 miles to a dealer and then be told that you can't hear your music. 

Yes, I understand that you may have set some small amount of time aside for personal selections, but you'd better hope that that time is open on my schedule.  I've got other products to look at, and you may have just lost a sale.

I'm sure this is usually determine via discussion, there is no hard fast rules,  losing a sale would not hinge on this , well not between reasonable parties...

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #82 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:36 pm »
genjamon,

I get it.  I would also be offended if my song was suddenly aborted. But please don't expect exhibitors to give everyone the third-degree and ask 20 questions before they play a requested track. That would be rude as well.  The onus is on the attendee to choose wisely.

That said, if I was the vendor and your track was not offensive to others in the room (e.g. AC/DC) I would have let it play.  I think that was the proper thing to do. If I felt the need to move on because it was a long orchestral piece and I did not know how much you planned to listen to I would have asked.

I am not sure if it was the vendor' choice or  a request but at the CA Audio Show one room had the Hugh Masekela  Stimela (The Coal Train) track playing.  :duh: It is 10 minutes of non-music. I would have aborted it without hesitation. I never did get to hear the speakers I wanted because of that track and during my other two trips to the room they were playing dull classical music.

Unfortunately Don, someone is always offended....  :)

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #83 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:39 pm »
Listen, you've said your piece and most people disagree with it. We all understand the complexity of what vendors must try to balance at these shows. Yet somehow a lot of manufacturers (all of the AC manufacturers in fact) have always been incredibly accommodating. And on the enthusiasts end- I will gladly wait until a particular track is done to listen, hell I sat through 4-6 tracks to hear my stuff.

Manufacturers are there to sell gear, of all who disagree with making the appropriate time or offended that they would be given special time to hear their own selection in a private listening session, how many bought equipment at RMAF...?




Tyson

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #84 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:44 pm »
Manufacturers are there to sell gear, of all who disagree with making the appropriate time or offended that they would be given special time to hear their own selection in a private listening session, how many bought equipment at RMAF...?





So, if I gather correctly, only people that are serious buyers would be allowed to listen to their own music, and only by special time/reservation? 

Also, you said you worked for a vendor for many years - which one?  I'm curious to see if they still hold to this policy?

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #85 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:48 pm »
No i did not say that , I said those who wanted to hear their own selection  would be best served in private time. this is the best way to hear your selection without interruptions  no matter how long the intro..


Question:
 How many,  who got their selection played and was happy about this, bought equipment at RMAF ...? 

The private time allow both seller and customer to better achieve their goals, also you had stated the main stream guys are doing what i suggested, are they having any success or are the others killing them in sales ..

Tyson

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #86 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:52 pm »
Fair answer.  But you didn't answer my main question - which vendor did you work for?

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #87 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:55 pm »
Fair question, long long ago time ,  interested in hearing about sales at RMAF ...... 

Pez

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #88 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:56 pm »
Quote
How many,  who got their selection played and was happy about this, bought equipment at RMAF ...?
 


Uhhh I have.  :o

Tyson

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #89 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:59 pm »
Fair question, long long ago time ,  interested in hearing about sales at RMAF ...... 

Uhm, those are words, not an answer.

Tyson

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #90 on: 15 Oct 2014, 10:18 pm »
 


Uhhh I have.  :o

Dammit Pez, stop being sarcastic in exactly the same manner as me!

vinyl_lady

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #91 on: 15 Oct 2014, 10:39 pm »
Question:
 How many,  who got their selection played and was happy about this, bought equipment at RMAF ...? 


My entire system, except for my TT and cartridge, was purchased from vendors at RMAF; vendors who played my selections on the CDs or vinyl I brought for the sole purpose of evaluating their products using music with which I am familiar. They played these tracks during normal show hours, not in a private audition. Two exhibitors also arranged for me to audition their equipment in my home after the show before purchasing. A win-win.

Daedalus Audio

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #92 on: 15 Oct 2014, 10:41 pm »
Opinions vary widely as to how and why we lost our local B&M stores but they are gone regardless ---- and along with them went the personal demonstration. Attendees at these shows need to understand that the purpose is to give exposure to the vendors and the showgoers mutually. Vendors are not in a situation where they can afford anyone much personal attention. If they do that with anyone, it is at the expense of everyone else. If you are not going to be happy about sharing, you should spend your money traveling to a vendor willing to provide you with a private showing rather than using it to disappoint yourself.


had to pipe up again...  yes most of the AC manufacturers are fine with someone coming to them for a personal audition and that is a great way to get extended listening and much cheaper than a bad purchase. The show is a great way to get an INTRODUCTION to a product, not to necessarily make your final decision.

 Also, I for one welcome music requests, many of the songs on my playlist have come that way. I even welcome advance requests and playlist suggestions.... anyone want to start that thread?

This discussion really shouldn't be a big deal and usually isn't, most exhibitors and attendees are respectful of each other and for many of us the personal interactions are the big payoff for doing the show.
Lastly, as to some of the chestnuts played at a show, there is a value in hearing the same tunes in different rooms.... but I will gladly drop Hotel California from the list  and  If Dan would let me I would can Niel Young as well, I think he plays "Old man" just to razz me.  :P

I do have one issue and that is when people touch the gear and reach around back into the cables etc., one inadvertent flip of a switch or stepping on a cable can really cause a lot of stress for us.

thanks,
lou

jtwrace

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #93 on: 15 Oct 2014, 10:57 pm »
I do have one issue and that is when people touch the gear and reach around back into the cables etc., one inadvertent flip of a switch or stepping on a cable can really cause a lot of stress for us.

thanks,
lou
Why is anyone touching anything?  I mean, what are they trying to do?  Rearrange the electrons for better sound? 

macrojack

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #94 on: 15 Oct 2014, 11:40 pm »
Why is anyone touching anything?  I mean, what are they trying to do?  Rearrange the electrons for better sound?
Perhaps they are trying to apply an essential tweak without which proper evaluation is impossible.

Maybe there is some mental illness among the audiophile community. That might explain the hygiene problems, the attitudes and the tweaking. Do you suppose we are cult members? There are certainly some behaviors that might earn us that designation.

finsup

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #95 on: 16 Oct 2014, 12:01 am »
I hope there are a few of you out there reading this.

Any exhibitor serious about doing it better the next time should make a point of visiting forums such as AC after a show and reading through the comments.

mal

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #96 on: 16 Oct 2014, 01:20 am »
Why is anyone touching anything?  I mean, what are they trying to do?  Rearrange the electrons for better sound?

At least one vendor in the CanJam had a touch-and-munge type who decided to swap power supplies between amps when nobody was looking. The result was two dead products, a very serious bug report filed with the manufacturer, and two empty seats that used to face demo systems. More common is the kind of person who changes settings and walks away. In a big room like Lou's, the vendor will notice it right away as people run screaming from the room. At a place like CanJam, a foobared product might annoy customers for an hour without getting noticed.

Heck, I've seen guys at these shows reach around and yank out the speaker cables -- while the music is playing! --  just because they want to see the termination on the cables. You'd think that manners and common sense would at least make them ask first, but, no, they just rip something out and leave it lying on the floor. Then there are the guys who will twist-and-torque a tonearm just because they want to feel when the bearing snaps.

Why are people doing it? I don't have an answer that doesn't involve profanity about bestiality.

Fortunately for everyone, this kind of behavior seems to be relatively uncommon. Most of the folks at these shows are well mannered people who don't mind sharing the experience. There seem to be very few of the inconsiderate nutcases, thankfully, or the vendors would probably make us all pay a deposit before they let us into their rooms.


DEV

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #97 on: 16 Oct 2014, 02:34 am »
Pez great opening post!

Some of my thoughts, I made a trip from Canada with intentions to purchase, some smaller and some larger.

1. I found allot of the rooms were very uncomfortable, either just too warm or hot along with some that had a bad odor so this had me turn around quickly exiting.

Venders: pretty simple fix, ensure you keep the temp on the cool side along with deodorizers.

2. Too many venders standing and talking right up front, in front of their gear or in the room loud enough that it distracted me.

Venders: conduct this elsewhere, don't you want me to see and hear what you have

3. Playing just weird music - playing too loud

Venders: be organized with a variety of music prior and stop playing so loud and ripping my ears off, I quickly exist or don't even enter if such is going on. If someone is really wanting to rock it out then make arrangements after the show.

4. Set-ups in general I felt were really not that good, I heard endless excuses

Vender: I would think you are there to sell, ensure you have your system together prior and ensure it's well broken-in.
Room issues, either bring or make arrangements  - ensure you spend the time to set-up prior to the opening day and not be doing this while the show is open. Want to make major changes, do this after the show day ends.

5. Personally if I was doing the show I would have a greeter outside at the door to ensure people came in, a few venders did this - thumbs up for them.

On my short list was looking too purchase was a Kodo The Beat turntable, in the room at the time no music on, then the owner is up front in the middle of the system talking to a guy about a possible plinth. Time is a ticking, 5 minutes goes by and still no music, a guy pipes up "put on some music" Steve gives a sarcastic look. Plays one song and then then Frank S starts babbling with another guy right in front of the right speaker. I did not like the attitude in general and these guys were acting like their shit didn't stink - well they both loss my business and their product is written off.

I went into a room for one of these tweek demoes just for the hell of it, the system was out of phase but these guys are rambling on what they are doing and the improvement - ya trying to get it into phase I was thinking to my self  :lol:
Upon leaving, guy asks me what did you think, I responded your system is out of phase - he quickly replies can't be. I leave and go next door to the VAC & Solution set-up. Upon leaving that room the guy is right outside the door - my thought is "wholly crap buddy I feel like you are stocking me now"  Says come back in and have a listen, I politely replied no thanks - he then asks me what does my system consist of - I said what does that have to do with anything specially with your system being out of phase and just politely said I'm not interested and parted my way. 

I was entering into one room where the venders were having a pissy fit with each other, that was awkward.  :roll:

Vapor Audio

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #98 on: 16 Oct 2014, 02:37 am »

I don't have an answer that doesn't involve profanity about bestiality.


Well now I want to hear your answer  :lol:

Vinnie R.

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #99 on: 16 Oct 2014, 03:18 am »
Well now I want to hear your answer  :lol:

heh - me too!  :green: