An open letter to RMAF Vendors 2014

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a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #60 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:19 pm »
For me it's not the money, at all.  Its that it was just plain more fun 3 or 4 years ago when we were just some nobodies that could slip in and out of a room undetected and write whatever the hell we wanted in some obscure forum that no one read.  We've done everything we can to avoid being taken seriously.  A couple of years ago it resulted in job offers from a few magazines (fuck them), and this year it was offers of "reserved time" in rooms and special treatment from vendors (which we turned down, too).  But you see where it's heading, and it makes me pretty damn uncomfortable.

I can respect that .....

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #61 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:22 pm »
Have you ever been to RMAF, CAF or a similar show? Your posts tell me you are absolutely clueless about what happens in a room at RMAF. 90% of the rooms get crowded with 10 people in the room and could never fit 30. I've been to 10 straight RMAFs plus the last two CAFs and I have never experienced anything close to what you have posted. I make requests all the time and most exhibitors ask me what I would like to hear. It's not a problem.

Is this a serious response, "devils advocate " it doesnt matter if 5 or 10, or 60 over a day or 100  ......

vinyl_lady

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #62 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:25 pm »
Is this a serious response, "devils advocate " it doesnt matter if 5 or 10, or 60 over a day or 100  ......

I repeat, clueless

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #63 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:28 pm »
Then how would you expect people to get a sense for what the equipment sounds like?  I can only tell when I am hearing something familiar.  Why is it opening a can of worms?  I don't understand that part.

Familiar to what, your current reference , your system?

If you look at what i said and currently suggesting.  requests duly taken and then the  time made to allow interested parties to hear what they want in an appropriate settings, quite room no traffic , play anything you want...

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #64 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:29 pm »
I repeat, clueless

Yes , i can see  that,  comprehension , No ! Not to worry I wont hold it  against you .....

genjamon

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #65 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:35 pm »
Corollary to the point about letting people listen to their own music:

If you let someone listen to their own track, don't just switch to something else randomly in the middle of the track!  This happened to me quite often at RMAF this year.  There were one or two tracks that I wanted to hear in the rooms I was most interested in, and each of these tracks started slow and built over time.  They were often just about to get to the point that would really test the system when the vendor would just switch back to their own music.

I'm not saying vendors can never switch back - if a bunch of new people come into the room or something, I don't know.  But they should at least have the respect to ask the attendee that requested and is listening carefully to this track they care about if it's alright to switch back due to this or that.  It's no use to allow people to request music on your system if you're not willing to go all the way and let them hear their stuff.  Realize there will be some awful (to you, and probably other show-goers) music that is requested.  And it may sound like shit on your system.  But as Pez articulated quite well, that's should be fine, and is sometimes intentional on the part of the show-goer to see how the system sounds with shittily-recorded music. 

I, for one, would be fine with you telling others in the room that this was a request of an attendee, and that you'll be switching to something else shortly.  Hell, bring a sign that says "attendee-requested song" or something like that, so that when someone new walks into the room they know what's going on in there, and that you'll be cueing something else up shortly if they don't like what they hear. 

Vapor Audio

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #66 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:51 pm »
Was an exhibitor for many years, never had an empty room,  never took request unless private , never had a complaint about music nor selection, good music and sound is always appreciated... We always made special time for those wanting to hear their selection, not going to take 30 request from those narcissistic enuff to be offended that someone didnt and i'm not talking being rudely turned down , being rude is a no no at any event .

By not taking request , no one is offended and you wont offend as many people as if you played some nutter music job and have everyone scatter  :lol: then later read how horrible the sound in the room was because they happened to walk in at that time......

Yep such is the animal ...

Clearly you viewed it as YOUR show.  I view it as THEIR show. 

You come into my room, speak up and you'll get whatever you want. 

Don_S

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #67 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:55 pm »
Attendee demo music does not have to be a disaster. I am sorry some vendors take that attitude. Quite frankly despite the occasional bomb from an attendee their music is frequently better than the exhibitor’s choices. No attendee should expect to hear an entire track unless the room is empty. If they picked a song that takes more than 2 minutes to get to the part they want, they picked the wrong track for a show. It might be a great track for use at home but not at a show unless the room is empty or nearly so and others don't object.

A few years ago I was at T.H.E. Show in Las Vegas.  A room had just emptied out when I was walking in.  The exhibitor was happy to play my compilation demo disk.  I have numerous tracks designed to test various parameters in less than 60 seconds, frequently only 30 seconds. I know what I am listening for and get there quickly then move to the next track.  I have even been complimented on that as well as the music choices.
I had listened to some tracks longer than normally because the room was empty and sounded great but then a group of young men came in together and sat behind me.  I play well with others and am careful to not hog the sweet spot. After playing parts of a couple more tracks I felt it was time to let someone else have a turn.  I turned to the exhibitor, complimented the system (it really was one of the best I heard at CES/T.H.E. Show that year), thanked him and told him to stop the track so someone else could take my seat and put on their music.

I heard a resounding NO! from at least 2 guys behind me.  One emphatically said “leave it on”.  I looked back at the exhibitor and he was standing their laughing and grinning from ear to ear.

HAL

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #68 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:00 pm »
I would never take request from show goers, it's the worst thing one can do when at a trade show, it's a can of worms and only lead to having to take more request from everyone, who by now feels entitled and offended if not.  If someone is truly interested , Best to  arrange to have a demo with their own selections at an appropriate time.

What seems to be the real issue is the poorly selected music by most, this is where the  stepping up needs to take place ......


-My 2 cents

There a many reviewers that bring their music during show hours to quickly evaluate systems.   

mgalusha

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #69 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:00 pm »
- Played out music >> I try to avoid the same old tracks that I hear every time I walk through the halls (e.g. Hotel California, Tea for the Tilleraman, Krall, Pink Floyd, etc.), but BELIEVE ME - some attendees ask for this.  Really!  "Can you play something by Diana Krall?"  "Got anything with female voice and a guitar?"  "Got any DSOTM?"  Or they hand me a disc with these played out demo tracks, but we want to make the attendees happy, so we'll play it.  Then I'm sure people come into the room and think "oh no, not another room playing XYZ!"  If you say "we don't play that in this room" - it is snobby!  So how do we make it a win-win for everyone?

Here is anther thing that happens often:  I'm playing jazz, and someone remarks "I'm so bored of hearing jazz in these rooms - don't you have any classical music?"  So I play classical - and someone says the same thing - "All I hear at these shows is classical music, don't you have any blues?"  Then when you play blues, somebody is tired of that and wants "singer/songwriter music" or "female vocals."  You play female vocals and then someone complains there is not enough music with male vocals being played!  :lol:  :banghead:   You get the idea!

NOTE - not everyone does this sort of thing and it doesn't happen all the time, but it happens quite a bit and I try not to LOL or take offense.  It's just inevitable because people and their tastes (and how they choose to express them) are so different.

Having been on both attendee and helping to exhibit roughly equally, I can say with certainty this is true. I made certain there was no Eagles, James Taylor, Steveie Ray, Diana Krall, Patricia Barber and other audiophile staples on the Mike's playlist this year, even if I do still enjoy some of it. That of course didn't stop folks from asking for some of these. I did try to put on stuff that I both enjoyed and covered various genres and styles but no matter what you can't make everyone happy. Now, for Rich (HAL), I knew he was coming and made sure to have some Black Sabbath for him...  :icon_twisted: Of course others in the room had their favorites on the play list, so it's a mixed bag. One thing that was fun but not very feasible during normal show hours was enabling AirPlay on the ARIES streamer. On Saturday night, during the beer session, one visitor wanted to listen to something on his phone. We added him to the wifi, turned on AirPlay and it worked perfectly, he could play his tunes as desired and it didn't skip a beat. 'Twas very cool.

genjamon

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #70 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:01 pm »
Fair enough, Don, but I would still say a little communication could go a long way.  If you aren't going to let me listen to the whole track, maybe let me know up front and I won't pick a track that takes a while to get to the point.  Or I'll tell you to fast forward to the part I really want to hear.  Or if it depends on whether I'm the only one in the room, let me know that up-front so I know if other people walk in you might switch it.  To me, it's all about all parties having a common set of expectations about the experience up-front - which requires a minimal level of good respectful communication skills on the part of all parties.

Some of the rooms actually did quite a lot of the above, and I appreciated it.  Others just abruptly changed it on me.

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #71 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:03 pm »
Clearly you viewed it as YOUR show.  I view it as THEIR show. 

You come into my room, speak up and you'll get whatever you want.

Whatever works for you , clearly you view it differently , not from me , but your main competition , up  the road  ....

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #72 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:05 pm »
There a many reviewers that bring their music during show hours to quickly evaluate systems.

I know, best at that special time ....

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #73 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:07 pm »
Fair enough, Don, but I would still say a little communication could go a long way.  If you aren't going to let me listen to the whole track, maybe let me know up front and I won't pick a track that takes a while to get to the point.  Or I'll tell you to fast forward to the part I really want to hear.  Or if it depends on whether I'm the only one in the room, let me know that up-front so I know if other people walk in you might switch it.  To me, it's all about all parties having a common set of expectations about the experience up-front - which requires a minimal level of good respectful communication skills on the part of all parties.

Some of the rooms actually did quite a lot of the above, and I appreciated it.  Others just abruptly changed it on me.

As i said rude is rude and  not acceptable, this is more offensive than not playing requested tracks ....

DaveC113

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #74 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:10 pm »
I make a single track with about 1 minute clips. You can download Audacity and learn how to do this in about 5 minutes.

I am asked which artist/track is on my playlist almost every time I play it and often write down the info for someone.

If you stick to 1 min clips you get a good enough picture of how it sounds and you also avoid annoying the exhibitor and other folks in the room, and you can include a bunch of different clips on your track, which helps you get a better idea of the system's capabilities too.

genjamon, I'll take my disc and walk out if if the exhibitor decides to stop it halfway through. That is rude.

BobRex

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #75 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:17 pm »
Was an exhibitor for many years, never had an empty room,  never took request unless private , never had a complaint about music nor selection, good music and sound is always appreciated... We always made special time for those wanting to hear their selection, not going to take 30 request from those narcissistic enuff to be offended that someone didnt and i'm not talking being rudely turned down , being rude is a no no at any event .

By not taking request , no one is offended and you wont offend as many people as if you played some nutter music job and have everyone scatter  :lol: then later read how horrible the sound in the room was because they happened to walk in at that time......

Yep such is the animal ...

Look at it this way....  In many cases, these shows - as opposed to a "REAL" trade show (think CES) -  is more for the end user than the dealer network.  Given the scarcity of brick and mortar stores anymore, these shows have become substitutes, and as such, customers want to be treated as they would at a dealership.  So, logically, playing their choice of music is understandable.  After all, as a customer, how would you like to have driven 150 miles to a dealer and then be told that you can't hear your music. 

Yes, I understand that you may have set some small amount of time aside for personal selections, but you'd better hope that that time is open on my schedule.  I've got other products to look at, and you may have just lost a sale.

Pez

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #76 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:19 pm »
Yes , i can see  that,  comprehension , No ! Not to worry I wont hold it  against you .....

Listen, you've said your piece and most people disagree with it. We all understand the complexity of what vendors must try to balance at these shows. Yet somehow a lot of manufacturers (all of the AC manufacturers in fact) have always been incredibly accommodating. And on the enthusiasts end- I will gladly wait until a particular track is done to listen, hell I sat through 4-6 tracks to hear my stuff.

When others clearly can make it work (and make it work well) I find very little logic in stating otherwise. But to each their own. Also lets watch the condescension- that goes for everyone.

Don_S

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #77 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:21 pm »
genjamon,

I get it.  I would also be offended if my song was suddenly aborted. But please don't expect exhibitors to give everyone the third-degree and ask 20 questions before they play a requested track. That would be rude as well.  The onus is on the attendee to choose wisely.

That said, if I was the vendor and your track was not offensive to others in the room (e.g. AC/DC) I would have let it play.  I think that was the proper thing to do. If I felt the need to move on because it was a long orchestral piece and I did not know how much you planned to listen to I would have asked.

I am not sure if it was the vendor' choice or  a request but at the CA Audio Show one room had the Hugh Masekela  Stimela (The Coal Train) track playing.  :duh: It is 10 minutes of non-music. I would have aborted it without hesitation. I never did get to hear the speakers I wanted because of that track and during my other two trips to the room they were playing dull classical music.



Fair enough, Don, but I would still say a little communication could go a long way.  If you aren't going to let me listen to the whole track, maybe let me know up front and I won't pick a track that takes a while to get to the point.  Or I'll tell you to fast forward to the part I really want to hear.  Or if it depends on whether I'm the only one in the room, let me know that up-front so I know if other people walk in you might switch it.  To me, it's all about all parties having a common set of expectations about the experience up-front - which requires a minimal level of good respectful communication skills on the part of all parties.

Some of the rooms actually did quite a lot of the above, and I appreciated it.  Others just abruptly changed it on me.

Hugh

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #78 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:26 pm »
It is a fine line we all have to walk.

Like somebody much wiser than I am...Can you keep everybody happy? :)

macrojack

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #79 on: 15 Oct 2014, 09:26 pm »
Opinions vary widely as to how and why we lost our local B&M stores but they are gone regardless ---- and along with them went the personal demonstration. Attendees at these shows need to understand that the purpose is to give exposure to the vendors and the showgoers mutually. Vendors are not in a situation where they can afford anyone much personal attention. If they do that with anyone, it is at the expense of everyone else. If you are not going to be happy about sharing, you should spend your money traveling to a vendor willing to provide you with a private showing rather than using it to disappoint yourself.

I am too lazy to attend hi fi shows and no longer choose to endure the indignities endemic to flying. I do live within driving distance of RMAF but have never felt motivated to mingle. I hate B.O.